That'SLife

Mark me down as another who worries he’s done this too much and is a not-terribly significant part of the group of people being referred to here.

God that sounds insecure.

[Reply]

Soap box today, eh?

There are a number of points in this post which I really appreciate and agree with and am very glad to see raised.

There are some points however that I don’t agree with and a handful of others that are missing.

First of all… Twitter is a developing culture and as a result there really is no fixed way “to be” on it – numerous blog posts report very different and conflicting attitudes and tips on social media behavior: promoting one’s articles vs only promoting one’s work vs simply informing one’s audience… in part in basically comes down to common sense but according to whose culture – this is a global space.

It’s also important to note that what amuses one person can really frustrate and annoy another… more on that in a moment.

For the most part, we educators who are on Twitter are actually in the rather lucky position of being together for a few moments each day – in a space where what we are sharing is, for the most part, articles and links related to education, teaching practice and developing professionally.

However, those of us who’re still teaching do have differing schedules and mostly are not online all day!

Due to this and the global time-line plus the sheer number of people some follow and are followed by, I simply don’t agree with your suggestion that a tweet should be made once and then spread by your PLN.

Your core PLN may not be online when you are, or they may be busy or distracted by something they themselves are writing in that moment… it is important to remember that these tweets are educationally related – they are generally not selling anything, are passing on knowledge and information, so obviously, a little respect can be shown for these “repeating” actions.

In fact, on BELTfree we took a poll a while back where, for these reasons, and a consensus was reached: one tweet is not really enough… in fact, am a bit surprised to see you write this as I’m sure you don’t tweet your own posts only once!

Nor should you – the fact is I’m grateful when other elt-bloggers announce their work again, even days later, so I don’t miss some of their best work.

And now on to the thank you’s for RTs.

This is such a grey area, Gavin… and I tend to take the opposite view.

I actually don’t think there is enough graciousness! Gratitude is few and far between amongst ‘some’.

I suppose it’s about the way one does it.

I may well be doing it wrong… like most others, I’m simply navigating my way through the twitterdom.

But to be frank, I simply can not believe how many people just expect their posts should be ReTweeted… like it’s some kind of automatic action, one has announced one’s work and now.. come ye, come all..

…not at all taking into account that it is not an automatic reaction but one to be carefully considered (not all work is worth RTng, let’s face it, and too many casual clicks of the RT button can damage one’s own reputation) however these people who simply never acknowledge the energy spent by their PLN in doing this for them, well, suck…

Regarding thank-you’s in public and your take that they look desperate: I like seeing public thank yous – going back to the graciousness I would like to see more of in my community (in RL I come from a gracious culture)…

they also notify me that someone has written something this morning, yesterday, days ago which is actually worth me reading.

Some people do tend however to prefer the private thank-yous. I am not one of these people.

The generic “thanks for the RT” actually annoy me when they pop up on my Tweetdeck DM column- if someone is grateful, say so, go on, tell your own PLN that you are glad I spent the energy reading your post, commenting and then retweeting your work – (however, I do understand this may be a cultural difference and it excludes, obviously, the very sincere and genuine thank yous I also receive by DM).

In summary, I guess my personal take-on on the thank you business is that it is important, it should be done publicly but… perhaps the thank yous shouldn’t also include a link to the post one is thanking one for.

Right… I’m almost off my horse… however seeing as how you’re a great place to come for a rant, it’s a topic I’ve ranted on before, I’ll join you with my list of Things Karenne Hates on Twitter

1. People who never, ever RT anyone else’s work unless it’s something done by a VIPie person whether or not that something is actually any good or worth reading.

2. People who never, ever say thank you for the gazillion RTs I have made of their work.

Could I repeat that?

2b. Who never ever reciprocate and never RT my stuff despite the fact I constantly RT theirs… (actually it doesn’t make me mad, it hurts my feelings).

3. People who never visit or write on my own blog but somehow expect me to. Yer, what?

4. People who come onto Twitter only to advertise their posts. Then leave.

Then come back to RT it a few days later. However they don’t engage with any of their teachers – just the VIPies… do no reciprocal action, no RT of any of their own PLNs… just a look at me, read me… read me…I’m such a very big deal.

5. People new to blogging… who’ve wow! racked a total of 7-10 posts, now thinking it’s okay to go ask experienced bloggers who have written hundreds and hundreds of posts… (that is to say, have put in hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of hours writing, creating, coming up with new innovative ideas) now asking for a guest post for their own blogs… on a blog that gets like what, all of 10-100 visitors a day?

The word ‘cheek’ comes to mind… often.

Oh… and while I’m busy ranting… above all the things I hate, it’s the false-modesty type tweets, ‘I’m just so darn humble, I never ever self-promote my wonderful articles related to educating others… (vomit)’ -then they turn around and beg a VIPie to do it for them instead…

and I will most gladly wear a beer if that crap stops.

Peace out, Gavinito,
Karenne

[Reply]

Don’t agree… re the why thank for the RT, but then it’s a question of scale and number perhaps … also when I say thank you to those who’ve RT’d me, I am saying to the general public – these are gr8 peeps who actually take the time to read other people’s work (they’re not the obsessed about myself peeps), they comment and they RT work – these are not your average twitterer, pay attention and pay attention to them.

But that’s my take I guess.
K

btw, where is your subscribe to comments button?

[Reply]

You’re 200% right on a couple of key points here, Gavin. Namely that things like Twitter level the playing field (which allows them to make their own judgments about whom to follow and what they do or don’t like being seen tweeted)…

It’s just a bit of a pity that many of your potentially very valid snippets of advice here (given your experience in this field, which you allude to without of course “bigging yourself up”) are basically a pretty thinly veiled swipe at one or a couple of people you appear to be taking exception to, and they do in some ways set you up to look a bit hypocritical (at worst) and/or taking unnecessarily high moral ground (at best). Is it at all possible you have read some things into recent Twitter and blog activity that weren’t actually there? Are you sure that in standing up to claim what does and does not comprise appropriate use of Twitter and blogs, you’re not in fact setting yourself up to receive similar charges? Is it at all possible that other people’s use of this media may differ from your own, and that these people may be perfectly entitled to do so?

Perhaps just criticise the people concerned directly (go on, make an example of them – no, sorry – us!); heck, might even try an email or a Tweeted DM. Or, if it is really irking you, you could just unfollow. Nobody’s forcing you to read those posts, Gavin, and – just as importantly – nobody’s attempting to tell you what you can or can’t tweet or blog. If we don’t like it, we won’t read it, or we won’t follow you.

Democratic media is a wonderful thing. As you say, the playing field is now level. Everyone’s a star.

[Reply]

Come on Gavin…. name names!! Let’s have a bit of fun!

; P

(by the way, has anyone else noticed that captchas often sound like Fall album track titles?)

[Reply]

We don’t want to puff too hard though…. or the whole house of cards will come toppling down.

I wonder, does a PLN ever get in the way of good teaching? If I spent less time on twitter, and more time preparing lessons……

(“hums erich” – ripped straight from the pages of Mark E. Smith’s notebook)

[Reply]

Been thinking about this whole RT thing on my way to and from the kindergarten, and have come to the conclusion that if someone retweets something I’ve originally posted, I am glad that they found it useful, but that feeling isn’t what I would describe as “gratitude”, rather just happiness that I’ve managed to pass on something that has meant something to someone else (god knows it happens rarely enough). So to say “thanks for the RT” would actually be slightly fake, and I am comfortable with my not doing it. I do realise that people want to be recognised though so perhaps I’ll come up with a “Glad you liked it” message.

I guess I would be grateful if the original message were the promotion of something (self or product or service), but that kind of brings us back full circle.

“Conjugal Illinois” this time, which is more Tom Waits than Mark E Smith.

[Reply]

Don’t worry Andy, you haven’t, really – wow, this blog posting is unleashing all sorts of discussions.

Seriously, I mostly don’t notice who is not thanking – tends to be more along the lines of people who regularly update with links and who I (used to) regularly RT, than occasional bloggers + linkers .

We can’t do them all, after all… for me the easiest thing, rather than ‘unfollow’ (as someone suggested above which is a wee haste) is simply to not RT the work of people who live within a narcissistic vacumn!

K

[Reply]

Karenne,

To be honest, this blog post was not really about thanking or retweeting (though I’m happy for it to go that way), it was about people joining social networks and using social tools to purely talk about themselves…

In fact, more than that, it was something closer to most of our hearts, I would imagine: the importance of understanding a culture when one moves into it, of not shouting louder than the natives because one feels one deserves to be heard, etc.

Really, it was about travel – and how people comport themselves in a new and unfamiliar country where the locals may have been living quite peacefully for thousands of years…

Gavin

[ pelican ing ]

[Reply]

Andy,

I certainly wasn’t making rules, simply giving my opinion (strong though it may be) – and trying to equate it with real life.

Most of the people I know in real life are modest people who spend as much time listening to people and asking them questions about their lives as they do talking about their own.

Most people I know in real life are sensitive to local contexts and usually listen and ask questions when they visit new countries, rather than diving in and selling themselves relentlessly.

I find it unusual that many people see the online medium as different to the f2f one in that respect. I always thought it was ‘social networking’ rather than ‘commercial networking’.

Many people (myself included) have a problem with companies joining Twitter and tweeting endlessly about their products instead of actually sharing anything, but it seems it’s entirely acceptable for individuals to do the same (pop stars, tv stars, writers, etc. spring to mind, as they did yesterday when I wrote this).

However, as I am wont to point out, and Jason reminded me, I don’t have to turn the telly on…

Gavin

[ ey pirie ]

[Reply]

When I go to a foreign land I try to observe, enjoy, learn and take something back of value. I try not to criticize the culture of the people or place I visit, so what follows isn’t intended as criticism, it’s just the way I do it.

My own Twitter and blogging culture is dependent on the culture and value of quality. If I Blog, Tweet or Re Tweet something I try to do so only because I think it has value and quality that gives something to the people who spend their valuable time to reading or following my blogs / Tweets.

Sometimes I get a thank you for Re Tweeting people, and that’s nice, but it isn’t necessary for me and really my re Tweet is an act of thanking them because in enables me to share something of quality with my community / network.

I tend not to thank people who re Tweet me publicly (though sometimes I do privately) , not because I’m not grateful , but because it takes time and time is something that I never have enough of. Also because I feel that someone coming to my Tweet profile spending their valuable time looking for resources or information isn’t going to be best served by reading my list of thanks.

Sometimes, like last night, I ask for something from my network / community and a get some helpful responses and in those cases I do send out a thank you publicly.

That’s my country. It’s a place where people’s time is really valuable and where they look for quality. Hope that’s not too me me me.

Anyway, back to work and apologies if I’ve ever offended anyone for not thanking them. The gratitude is there, but there just aren’t enough hours in the day.

Best

Nik Peachey

[Reply]

Blimey… this is an interesting debate. In reverse order then…

Jason,

Hmmm, never been accused of being a white supremacist before, but I guess there’s a first time for everything!

Again, I think I’m being misunderstood – I’m not saying people shouldn’t tweet personal stuff, I like the personal stuff – the where people are, (even) what they’re eating and which country they’re in, etc.

My point was (is) that I don’t need to be told twenty times that someone has posted a new blog post (I’ll find it)…. I don’t need someone to tweet me to tell me they commented on my blog – because I see it on my blog. I don’t need to be told by someone how many records they sold last year, how much money they make, how popular their X, , Z is – people so rarely do that in real life that it really stands out online.

As I said, it’s called ‘social’ networking….

No, I don’t think my opinion should carry more weight – what I was suggesting was that (just as in real life) people new to these media should take some time to acclimatise, learn a bit of the culture and all that before jumping in shouting very loudly in English at the natives (as we Brits are traditionally purported to do).

Apologies for perceived ‘lording’ – that was simply not my intention at all. My intention was (is) to examine why online social cultures do not seem to bind people together with the sort of social norms that f2f ones. I claim no ownership, no right or wrong particularly – I’m interested in what turns quiet people f2f into ‘look at me’ megalomaniacs online.

One cannot, of course, fail to self promote every time one opens one’s mouth online. I just think some people are speaking the local dialect and fitting into the culture better than others (in my opinion). But as I said way up there, my blog postings are simply what I think about something, rather than a set of rules for all to follow…

Gavin

[ 10,900,000 doages this time - presumably the group that was formed when 10,000 Maniacs disbanded... ]

[Reply]

Everyone has an equal right to use the social media and Go Public in whichever way they please. It can be to promote their ‘me’, their business or even to promote some one else altogether by RT etc. Twitter and the like are meant to be open and are defined by their users. In this day of freedom of speech no one can police or regulate the exchange of information.

quoting @Gavin ‘Many people (myself included) have a problem with companies joining Twitter and tweeting endlessly about their products instead of actually sharing anything..’

All companies have the same right to make use of the social media for their goals. I strongly object to your quoted selfish notion. They are actually sharing the news of their products! If you find somebody’s tweets or self projecting blabber annoying, stop following them! You have the power to block the noise you consider irrelevant and filter it to your liking. It is the beauty of the sites like twitter that you are even hearing from the companies directly and their customer service is just one tweet away. I do not think that it was ever possible in the F2F real world.

[Reply]

To add my thoughts on RT thanking, I agree that the “norms” are evolving daily and I do feel that everyone has a personal approach (as in real life, as Karenne pointed out). Too true Gavin, the multiple @@@@@s with lists of names and accompanied by a simple “Thanks2 viewable to public don’t mean much to me either, they can clutter and distract. However, if the thanks message (whether public or private) engages in some other (even tiny) dialogue, then I like it. If it touches on the personal and doesn’t seem like an automated response out of protocol. I usually DM my thanks and actually pick up on some topic related to the original tweet or RT or twitter, for me this means that a lot the DM messages I receive have helped make the otherwise “anonymous” social network relationships much more profound. There’s a feeling of connection, which I think is important and find quite amazing. That has grown with the retweets and rethankings.

Social network democracy is quite incredible, I think those who might not have experienced or understood the “levelling ground” concept need more time to fully grasp that part – those irritating people Gavin should be allowed sometime to shift no? Or would you argue that they are abusing the social network system? Won’t it be the force of masses that either converts or rids?

I’d argue, that a helping hand or simply being he model you believe in works well. It’s amazing to observe the differences in this twitter PLN reciprocity. It’s definitely not all written in stone so discussions of this kind or private messages to help those selfish VIPs or baffled newbies do wonders for developing together.

Public thanks to all for adding to this exciting journey with all your blog posts, shared thoughts and tweets!
Valentina

[Reply]

Jeremy,

You whippersnapper, you! At some point in our lives we probably all become obsessed with statistics, but I reckon most people around here would probably go for quality over quantity any time. You’ve kicked off strongly and with a great subject and the *quality* of both the postings and the comments shines through.

When I look at Twitter, though, I do see it working well in terms of spreading the message. Graham Davies recently tweeted something along the lines of “I don’t suffer from information overload. If it’s important it’ll find me”

The retweets on this blog posting have been such that I only needed to tweet it once. My feeling is that if something is interesting (or irritating, in the case of this post) enough then it will be retweeted enough times to justify its existence and get the input it so richly deserves. If it’s not retweeted, either everybody missed it, or it’s simply not of interest to anyone, and therefore probably not worth banging against a brick wall retweeting yourself. What I mean is, retweeting one’s own blog posting all the time is (to my mind) like telling everyone the same joke as many times as it takes them to laugh. Exhausting for all.

I thank you for your thanks, and retweet them back at you.

Gavin

[ stilled Saturday ]

[Reply]

Carol,

It’s been so busy on this blog this morning I nearly forgot about your comment up there… Maybe it is simply all about ignoring the noise, I’m really not sure anymore…

Gavin

[ his iodizes ]

[Reply]

I wanted to start off this comment with “Nik, you have the time to blog and tweet out your own blog posts, but you don’t have the time to thank people?” Interesting…

But then I realized that not only am I ascribing my own cultural bias on your activities but that we all are.

I have no doubt irritated some people with my many thank yous to the many @’s who have graciously decided to pass on my work but if I thanked them each individually in private… well, like Nik it’s a time thing, but unlike Nik I found a short-cut – one I hoped was also promoting them to the rest of Twitter, saying these are “sharers” not “me-me-ers”

Still, I will rethink the policy and try to come up with a more non-irritating way of thanking.

But how gratitude (it is gratitude… those RTs mean much to me, it is through them that I reach my PLN and outside of my PLN) could be considered spam is odd – Andy, Gavin, Carol and others – sorry… but you are all British? and in my opinion, what you’re basically doing is reacting culturally, deciding as colonists are wont to do, LOL, that Twitter rules should follow your culture’s rules. Hmmm….

However… the reason I am actually back to this discussion is because this idea of a level playing field is absolute toss.

As I climbed up the hill to catch my train to go to my classes this morning, I realized that without almost any exception, the VIPs do not RT or react to the Non-VIPs’ work and links.

RTng is a big part of the culture of Twitter – if you like you could describe it as the “power” of Twitter – it’s how, Gavin, you have this number of comments on your blog today… yet while the VIPs are quite happy to be RTed whenever they tweeet out their own articles, videos, book titles and book sales and awards and blog postings and yadda yadda, they rarely tweet about anything that does not have to do with them or their inner circles directly.

Level Playing Field?

Most would very much like their stuff to be spread amongst our wider audiences (even Harmer is counting stats! – btw, install google analytics for a true picture, Jeremy, random counters on blogs record spiders and spam bots, not real visitors)… but mostly they don’t even attempt to spread the work of others (and I don’t mean you Jeremy, you know that ) & thanks for your engagement) – most, to be honest are like Nik and think they don’t have the time!

However, smile, due to the very nature of this new world the teacher in Greece with her innovative kindergarten practice is now able to reach the teacher in Australia who reads her words and enthusiastically passes on that article to her own PLN, reaching the teacher in Japan who then decides to connect with this teacher, plus add another in Turkey and chazammm!, now a Croatian is hookin up with that group and actually leading the way on a project and so they’re all collaborating and creating… and have no need of any VIP to stand on soap box and tell them how to do anything.

This field ain’t leveling… Gavin, it’s turning on it’s head.

[Reply]

Andy, Gavin, Carol and others – sorry… but you are all British? and in my opinion, what you’re basically doing is reacting culturally, deciding as colonists are wont to do, LOL, that Twitter rules should follow your culture’s rules. Hmmm…

Wooah. When we express our reactions to things on Twitter and so does everyone else, how are we the ones “laying down the rules” and nobody else is? Just because our feelings are different from yours suddenly we’re colonists? I think that’s really a pretty obnoxious thing to say frankly.

[Reply]

Sorry, Andy.. really, the LOL was an attempt to not be too harsh about it… but like David… I feel a certain colonial patronization in this post and in the comments and I can only talk from my cultural perspective… and coming from the colonies we tend to notice things like colonial superiority… which is frankly cropping up and not just from me.

[Reply]

That’s a bit of an overreaction, don’t you think? I could explain this in more depth but I’ll probably just dig a deeper hole… some people get distracted by the most interesting of things…

[Reply]

Honestly, no, I don’t think it’s an overreaction.

[Reply]

Actually, I am of the “twitter school” that there are no correct-use tips or guidelines .. that twitter is whatever it needs to be for each and every user. We all have the power to follow as we choose and to block those that we don’t want to tweet to. I don’t want to homogenize my networks, on the contrary .. I seek and promote divergence first and convergence much later.

I also enjoy fresh voices from the outer fringe from from the inner-circle echo chambers of my networks (whether edtech, EFL, virtual worlds, etc). These are the voices that actually stimulate change and new perspectives and take time to work into the mainstream culture (ie seasoned bloggers that have built a solid rep). I don’t necessarily want them to behave ore even think as the “established” set do. I cherish the difference on all levels. I take what I want and leave what I don’t want. There’s always a diamond to find in the rough … and great abundance in the most unlikely of places.

Frank, Divergent Learner

[Reply]

Ok, I think I’m the guilty party of thanking the RTs. But I can’t decide, reading this, whether I should continue to do so or not. I only started doing it because people thanked me when I retweeted so I thought it was the “done” thing. Guess that’s what trying to fit in to the new culture is about. I shall have to rethink this now.

I did get a bit of the cybercop sense from this post though, which is why it is prompting so much response.

As for corporations “moving in” on twitter, I think that has been happening across all disciplines, many probably a lot more so than in ELT.

Thanks for the post though Gavin, good to see you’re busy here as well!

[Reply]

Oh.My. God. The recaptcha things MUST be personalised. I am Slalomed Victoryless.

Personally, I hate RTs, thanks, an all other tweets that don’t mention Me or which aren’t directed (lovingly) at Me.

Where I sit, it really is all about Me.

[Reply]

Not “all”. I managed A Solitary Viewer of My fantastic blog that I made Scott Thornbury promote by stalking him. Have you seen My blog? It’s bloody great, it is. You can gain credibility by promoting it incessantly. No need to tell you the address. Just type in Diarmuid’s Blog. Google’ll know.

Star Material. That’s Me, that is; not recaptcha.Recaptcha is defined 020

[Reply]

Gavin,

Like Lindsay I started thanking people privately but so many people thank me publicly I thought it was almost a censorious move to thank someone in a DM, especially if it was the same someone who had just thanked me publicly! What a palaver!

But your point is not lost on newbies like me – that we should respect the culture we entered.. only trouble is that when you are a newbie, you know, it’s not always easy to know who is “the establishement” …and anyways, the e-sta-blish-ment do not converse with the likes of me on twitter …even if I address them directly…they have a nice way of ignoring you…so….at some point you really have to stop addressing them – otherwise you feel like a right idiot. Not all of them, I hasten to add… but some do only talk to the higher echelon only or what they consider to be their “inner circle”.

It’s hard to interact with people when you try to strike up some conversation with them and they answer everyone else and their mother but not you… I guess some people really either don’t have time or not enough time to answer you if they don’t think you are answerworthy – and that’s OK too.

I can live with that all right, no big issue, but I do know of people who get very upset.

Sorry about this digression, but since we are talking about communicating on twitter, I thought I’d mention this one small point too and I hope you don’t mind.

[Reply]

Marisa,

Lovely comments thanks – We should talk about it next time we meet in Second Life! I think like any culture one takes time to get into it. Looking back on my early days on Twitter I see I consumed much more than I produced. The same in Second Life – I spent weeks wandering around watching and listening before taking the plunge. I don’t know – I just think that’s human nature, but again, perhaps it’s just me.

During the really wild Second Life years many companies invaded it without taking the time to investigate the culture. They moved in, set up their shops, shouted about them and were then surprised to see that nobody was really interested.

I remember reading an article about the Nissan island in Sl where you could get cars out of a vending machine, and another space in Second Life where a human being lovingly crafted cars individually for people. The title of the aritcle was ‘would you buy a used car from this machine?’

I think as language educators (mostly) we’re acutely aware of the importance of culture, and or respecting cultures and I wonder why social media are different.

No more, no less…

See you in Sl soon,

Gavin

[ prays Charles ]

[Reply]

Karen,

Welcome back…. Let’s not go back too far with the cultural thing, otherwise you’ll have to enagage with Andy again on the whole ‘colonial’ issue and he’ll want an answer and it will all get messy.

I’m going to start again, I think:

1) I like the details of people’s lives, I like to know about travels, where people are going this evening, what they’re eating and what they’re doing, who they’re listening to…

2) I like to hear about people who’ve done excellent work, who’ve won awards, or who are shortlisted for awards, who’ve just written an amazing song or a poem, or taught a fantastic class.

3) I like when that information is retweeted *by other people*, it’s a celebration of our lives and our work, our triumphs and disasters.

4) I like to hear about interesting websites, articles and research papers

I love all that – that’s part of what makes Twitter great for me. But there’s so much in there that I find time-consuming, obfuscating of the useful and entertaining – the ‘look at me’ stuff is wearying, the sixth tweet about one’s latest blog posting is wearying… at least to me.

Reading back over the comments, we seem like an evenly divided camp between the bah humbugs and the joie de vivres. That’s fine…

I still stand by my culture comment though. I was not saying it was my culture, never said that. I was not saying these were rules, never said that either. I was talking about what happens when we (all of us, no VIPs, all of us new and excited Twitter users) enter a new culture and work out how it works, as it were…

And I stand by the comparisons, too. How many people (or cultures) do you know of who stand up in f2f situations and say “No, but listen to my new song!” five or six times a day. It doesn’t happen, at least not anywhere I’ve been. How many people f2f say “Thanks for just repeating what I said!” – that doesn’t happen. Why does it happen online? I’m interested.

I once described SL as being akin to the Wild West. Is this kind of behaviour the online equivalent of the land rush? And does any of it really matter, as Nick suggests at the end his comment?

I suspect it’s a non issue for many people. I find – perhaps as a result of my advancing years – it increasingly difficult to filter out the chatter and get to the gems. It seems to me that in the old days when I were a lad, Twitter was more about the social and the adventure of Twitter than the people using it, and I guess I liked it that way.

So, apart from writing this and stirring up a veritable hornet’s nest (which was never really my intention), which I have found very interesting… what does a bah humbug like me do? Do I stop using Twitter? Do I block the overly-commercial and self-centred tweeters and companies who sell but don’t give, or those who spend their entire day retweeting instead of producing and sharing… or those who never retweet, because they don’t share?

What’s the next big thing?

I’ve had a grand day of self-reflection from this post. I still think there’s something in there worthy of a conversation, but once again it’s become a divided polemical issue, mainly around the ‘you can’t tell me what to do, it’s not your Twitter, you colonial arse’ argument – which is not relevant to my original posting at all. There’s a culture in there to discuss, there’s a quantity/quality question, there’s an issue of time – there’s a lot in there.

Twitter is a complicated medium. Taking my own advice, I’m going to turn off the telly for a while and think about what I want from the telly… and when I’ve decided, I promise not to moan anymore about how great it all was back in the good old days.

Have a good weekend,

Gavin

[ Denenberg bonham ]

[Reply]

Thanks for mentioning it here though, Gavin!

Just of to retweet my latest blog post, unless anyone wants to access it straight from here….

[Reply]

Alright, try this one. The whole debate is solipsistic and self-indulgent, as is the notion of the PLN. Twitter is populated by narcissists and time-wasters, and all the real teachers are too busy TEACHING to worry about what Gavin Dudeney thinks.

;-P

[Reply]

Sue,

I don’t think you’re late – this discussion is still very much alive both here and on Twitter. You perhaps hit the nail on the head towards the end of your comment:

“perhaps it’s not so much how often something gets re-tweeted, but the degree of self-interest behind it, that determines how much repetition is too much?”

I think maybe that’s it exactly. My point was (is) that retweeting mentions of onesself is rather like standing at a party and saying something along the lines of “Did you hear what Susan said? She said I was great! Did everyone hear that? Did you?”

Glad to have you along to the party,

Gavin

[ excises Angola ]

[Reply]

Vicki,

Thanks for joining the discussion! It is indeed a new and evolving culture, but I think anyone using Net tools which involve people can see (very quickly) in the case of Twitter that people don’t primarily shout about how excellent they are, but rather talk about themselves occasionally whilst also talking about others, sharing resources, etc. There is a balance issue and I do think it’s worth exploring.

Chris Pirillo at LeWeb said “Community is the antithesis of ego” and I have to say I agree with him. A community thrives on the ‘complicity’ of everyone in it. If one or two members are constantly unbalancing the community by not contributing, then it stops working (at least for some).

In fact your Postel quote doesn’t work for me at all, because in social networking terms that translates as ‘do a lot of taking, but not much giving’, and it’s precisely that attitude which has (is) driven (driving) me mad in some cases.

Gavin

[Reply]

The twitter culture is a new evolving culture, and I’m new to it. So yes I realise I have to observe before joining in, and that’s what I try to do. Gavin you write that you are irked by people who only take and don’t give enough. I am sorry if I don’t give enough, I do my best. And what about not counting and not calculating? I thought twitter was about generosity, but maybe I am too much of an idealist! Twitter is a new culture but I am also from a different culture, so I apologize if I hurt some people’s feelings sometimes. Please DM me when I do so. In my culture we don’t say “thank you” as often as you seem to do. Talking too much about ourselves and how good we are is considered impolite, too. But I realise that on twitter many cultures co-exist and that’s the beauty of it. Of course I find it funny when I see people talking about their own work again and again but… hey, funniness never killed anyone.
…and I find twitter is a lot of fun!

[Reply]