I must confess I didn’t start it – I followed suit like a lemming. Others braver than me had forged the path. But this morning I killed my Twitter account after over four years of activity and building up a large collection of followers and friends. So why are people doing this? I can’t speak for anyone else, but here are my reasons…
I joined Twitter primarily because it seemed such a good research tool. Each and every day as I expanded my community I got useful links to websites, tools, research and opinion articles and a lot more. And mostly, when it started, I was able to keep up and store the good ones. But I just don’t have time to follow all those links anymore. I bookmark them and I never return to them. So there’s strike number one…
I also liked Twitter because it let me know where my friends were, and what they were doing – and that was fun. It also meant I knew when we were going to coincide at events, what they’d written, etc. I’ll miss that part of things, but then I’ll still meet up with people and still talk to them, so maybe the utility of knowing where they are was over-egged.
Then there was the unfortunate incident blogged about elsewhere on these pages – I think that was the beginning of the end for me. It has (unfortunately) made me more suspicious of the people I ‘meet’ online, and I’ve noticed that this suspicion has unconsciously carried over into my real life and to events that I attend. I now find myself wondering what kind of people they are. In the olden days, when one simply met at conferences, I used to consider myself a pretty good judge of character, but those days are gone.
And events themselves have become unmanageable to me. I used to know a bunch of people and, generally, at some point during a conference I would spend some quality time with them and have proper conversations. But, increasingly, I find myself ‘knowing’ more and more people, and having shorter and shorter conversations with many of them. I think I want to go back to the quality time. Odd that the ‘PLN” should have resulted in that for me, and of course your mileage may vary, but my conclusion is that I have more fleeting and shallow conversations with far more people. I’m a-yearning for the olden days.
So when I really sat down to think about it recently, I realised it wasn’t working for me. I couldn’t keep up with all the links, I couldn’t be a good friend to all my new friends online, I was suspicious of the motives of people (unfairly, obviously – but, once bitten…) and there just seemed little point.
This is a quick reaction to the decision. I think I have more to say…
Hi Gavin-
Points well-taken, and sorry to hear about the incident and the impact that it’s had on your trust and meeting folks at conferences. Such is life.
Twitter has a lot of “fluff” for me too which is a downside. I can’t send anything out without a
or LOL. Eventually you get used to it, but at times I still feel superficial. All the same, I’m a newbie here, and I’m sure, just like you 4 years ago, it’s kind of exciting. I’ve had my ups and downs on facebook too, and have been super close to pulling the plug, so I look forward to seeing your further reflections after hitting the “deactivate button”.
cheers, brad
[Reply]
Gavin Dudeney Reply:
April 6th, 2011 at 11:58 am
Brad,
Maybe a rest is just a good thing. Perhaps I’ll set up a NewImprovedGavin Twitter account in a few months and come bothering everybody again
Twitter has loads to offer people, but at some point you reach the tipping point of useful communication (in terms of numbers) and then it just becomes a torrent of stuff which doesn’t go anywhere particular.
Gavin
[Reply]
A sad day…
I hope you don’t miss it too much, I fear that I would!
Carol
[Reply]
Gavin Dudeney Reply:
April 6th, 2011 at 11:39 am
Carol,
It’s been over an hour…. I’m alright so far
I’m not looking at it as a sad day, but as a day for figuring out what I’ll do with the extra time, and how I’ll keep up with SOME of what’s going on…
Gavin
[Reply]
I have a feeling that the notion of a Twitter lifespan is one more and more people will become aware of. I enjoyed occasionally tweeting you but will probably find having to actually respond to your blog posts more fulfilling.
I skipped a recent conference at least partly for the reasons you suggest here: too much time would have been spent, er twitter actualizing (‘twactualizing’ is what it may become known as), at the expense of conversing with people I wanted to catch up with or paying attention to the event itself.
Add to that the ‘awesome’ factor. When someone does something, anything, Twitter culture seems to be almost demanding we respond with unquestioning over-positivity in which none of our PLN do wrong. I’m starting to feel this phenomenon becoming a little disconcerting myself.
Anyway, I’m off to foist my thoughts on the unsuspecting masses that are my twitter followers. Awesome, indeed.
[Reply]
Gavin Dudeney Reply:
April 6th, 2011 at 12:02 pm
Adam,
I do still like blogs a lot – and I intend to spend a little more time on them now that Twitter won’t eat into any time I may have on a daily basis. Already I feel the conversations on this blog entry are more enriching and informative than most of what I have taken from Twitter this morning
Yes, ‘twatualizing’ may well be one of the great disadvantages of Twitter and live conferences. I noticed a fair bit of it at #istek. However, when you provide quality times for people to get together (like a dinner and disco on a boat) you find that all the gadgets disappear and people sit, laugh and talk. Of course this is only still possible for a minority at each event – and Twitter does fulfill a vital function in informing people and drawing them together. I’m beginning to feel I’m too old for all this social networking malarkey
Gavin
[Reply]
When I came on twitter a mutual friend introduced me and you said hi almost immediately. I knew who you were, had one of your books and had done the consultants-e blogging course with Nicky and Andrej. I felt quite pleased that such an expert was speaking to me. However, to be honest, perhaps this is part of your problem. You are well known in ELT on and off-line and so lots of people want to be your friend and learn from your expertise. Those of use who are rather less popular or well known don’t have so many people demanding our time, I think. From some things you’ve noted in the past, maybe you’ve tried too hard to please everyone and the demands on your time and energy have spiralled out of control. The incident you suffered can’t have helped, obviously. Anyway, just a few thoughts.
Cheers
[Reply]
Gavin Dudeney Reply:
April 6th, 2011 at 11:45 am
Richard,
You sound way more sensible than me, to be honest
Yes, perhaps you can exceed critical mass and then you can’t do anything with it. That’s more or less where I’ve got to recently.
Nice to have met you, at any rate!
Gavin
[Reply]
But why deactivate the account, Gav? That’s the part I don’t understand. I would just stop going on twitter. Deactivating an account just seems so drastic and, to be honest, it sends off quite a message to those of us who only knew you on twitter.
A.
[Reply]
Gavin Dudeney Reply:
April 6th, 2011 at 11:55 am
Anna,
Apologies for the negative message – but you can always find me over here on the blog, or by email. And if you don’t have my email address, just let me know. I think I’ll still be posting odd images to Posterous, though – that’s quite fun. In terms of getting rid of the account, the temptation is just to big to tweet inanities every day, and to sit reading those of others for part of the day (amidst the often great quality content, I must add). It’s just more restful
G
[Reply]
Adam Reply:
April 6th, 2011 at 12:04 pm
Don’t forget the #FF (follow Friday) tweets that can be obligatory. Eventually people who didn’t know you’d stopped ‘using’ would get angry that you didn’t reciprocate their #FF and all kinds of shenanigans could ensue.
[Reply]
Gavin Dudeney Reply:
April 6th, 2011 at 12:05 pm
Adam,
Indeed… there are so many alliterative days on Twitter now that one could spend one’s entire week FF-ing and TT-ing and WW-ing and all the rest. Unfortunately, I’ve got a bit of work to do
Gavin
PS: Oh for crying out loud, Gav, that was just to say we’ll miss you around twitter!
[Reply]
Gavin Dudeney Reply:
April 6th, 2011 at 11:56 am
Anna,
I got the message – and thanks for it, too! I’ll miss many of you, too – but we’ll still find each other in other ways and on other platforms.
G
[Reply]
I’ll miss your tweets, Gavin. They have made me smile a lot. Coincidentally, I am getting more and more frustrated with Twitter. I used to find it very useful, but now I suffer from information overload. And I get annoyed when a thread I am following gets lost in a mass of idle chit-chat. I have pruned the people I follow down to a comfortable figure of around 200. I now use Facebook a lot more, but everyone I connect with on Facebook is either a member of my family or a real friend, or a colleague who has something interesting and preferably amusing to say. Blogs are still best for serious discussions. I’ll stay with Twitter for the moment, but I am tweeting less often now.
[Reply]
Gavin Dudeney Reply:
April 6th, 2011 at 1:05 pm
Graham,
I’ve never really got on with Facebook, either. But the blog is fine for me at the moment, I think…
Gavin
[Reply]
I’d love to hear what you think about this subject, but this blog post was very long, my attention span was too short to read it.
Could you summarize what you’re trying to say in 140 characters?
[Reply]
Gavin Dudeney Reply:
April 6th, 2011 at 1:04 pm
Yes, I see what you did there….
Gavin
[Reply]
Brad Patterson Reply:
April 6th, 2011 at 1:27 pm
LOL… that was funny.
[Reply]
It seems a delicious irony that this page had been tweeted at least 10 times so far LOL
[Reply]
Gavin Dudeney Reply:
April 6th, 2011 at 2:31 pm
John,
Indeed it does…
Gavin
[Reply]
Gavin,
Much of what you said rings true to me. The inability to follow all the links, a more recent suspicion on whether some of the people you “know” through Twitter are actually what they seem to be, the overwhelming dimension it can get.
And I was very much overwhelmed at first (unlike you who’s been around for over 4 years, I have a little over 8 months of actual use), staying away from it made me anxious, with a sense of ‘missing things”. And I spent one too many nights choosing to sleep less so that I could follow the links I had bookmarked throughout the day. But I’d like to think I’ve learned how to better balance things;, I (finally) understood it’s ok if I don’t get all the links the people I follow tweet – the really good ones eventually will come around again. I also reflected about the amount of time I had been spending on twitter and that real life is out here, so I’ve been much more aware of the time and deliberately limit that.
But I eventually find time to check the tweets, follow a couple of links. Read a couple of blogs – even if II don’t comment on them. Have light, fun conversations with people I would never have met had it not been for twitter. I don’t have many opportunities for taking part in conferences – certainly not in different countries – and Twitter in a way fills that void, since I can hear about what is going on around the world, take part in webinars (I had never hear of webinars before joining Twitter). I have asked my PLN for help a few times and been massively helped by them with ideas, links etc. And I believe IATEFL would be a complete different experience for me if I weren’t on Twitter, because I wouldn’t know anyone. Quite literally. I see your point about knowing too many people – and I have to agree with it. I was looking forward to meeting you in person in Brighton, but I think I’ll keep my distance now
Just kidding! I promise not to drag you into empty conversation though…
There are many tweets that I have no interest in, but I just ignore those. When I don’t really have time I go straight to the ones that mention me.
But that is not too far off real life, where there are many conversations that I could go through life without hearing – and I choose not to process them.
So I guess, for me Twitter still is very much worth it. I just have to keep an eye not to overdo it. And maybe my burnout time will come.
I hope you just need some time off. I have really enjoyed following you, your witty replies to people, your great pictures. And of course I’ll keep following the blog.
All the best Gavin!
Cecilia
[Reply]
Gavin Dudeney Reply:
April 6th, 2011 at 2:36 pm
Cecilia,
I still think Twitter works for some people – just not for me anymore. I hope you won’t keep your distance in Brighton and pop over to say hello at some point. All the points you make about why and how Twitter works for you seem perfectly valid to me, and my intention here is not to put anyone off Twitter, just to explain why I’m no longer on it…
You’ll still find the pictures on Posterous
Gavin
[Reply]
Hi Gavin
I think I have about 400 links in my twitter favourites that I vow I will return to but know that in reality I probably never will. Like others, I agree with the essence of what you’ve said in your post and often find the over-sentimental “you’re amazing” tweets a bit nauseous. I’ve been on twitter for just under a year and joined after IATEFL 2010 because I felt that there was huge potential for sharing ideas and learning, which has become the reality. I remember seeing your talk and that being one of the catalysts for me to become more involved in integrating tech into the classroom… blah blah & skip to the end! I think what this response is trying to say is that I find twitter banal and useful in equal measure, but when, like you, i find there is little use for it and that I’m having fleeting conversations with people when I meet them rather than proper conversations like in the olden days, I’ll consider leaving as well. Anyway, cheers for the various bits of advice you’ve given me in the past 12 months and hopefully we can have a ‘proper’ conversation in Brighton.
paul
[Reply]
Gavin Dudeney Reply:
April 6th, 2011 at 2:33 pm
Paul,
Thanks for the comment – you’ll grow old and tired like me one of these days
You’re very welcome to the advice. Come by and say hello in Brighton – I’ll be in the pub where all the tweeters are, trying to catch up 
Gavin
[Reply]
Hi Gavin,
I guess I ended up being one of those ‘fleeting conversations’ at ISTEK this past weekend and for me that was one downside – there were almost too many people I was meeting for the first time and I couldn’t possibly do justice to all of them. Well, I could have but then I wouldn’t have time to actually attend any sessions!
However, I also feel that being active on Twitter made the event for me. First of all, I probably wouldn’t have ever considered submitting a proposal or even attending if I hadn’t been on Twitter. Secondly, it was great to be able to skip the formaliities of introductions with everyone and jump straight in, picking up conversation threads from Twitter and blogposts (although, as mentioned above, there wasn’t time to do that with absolutely everyone). And finally, another aspect to the fleeting conversations from the regular teacher’s perspective was that when meeting some of the ‘big names’ from the world of ELT, previous interactions from Twitter and blog comments helped me feel less like I was an intruding stranger taking up their time with idle chit-chat and more like the conversation was welcome.
But obviously, everyone’s experiences are different and I’ll see how I feel further down the line.
Hope to see you and have a longer chat at some future ELT event!
Dave
[Reply]
DaveDodgson Reply:
April 6th, 2011 at 3:30 pm
P.S. Forgot to mention one thing: I remember a couple of months ago, there seemed to be tweets coming through every day along the lines of ‘doing a session on Twitter with colleagues – pls tell us where you’re from & why you use Twitter’, which got me thinking if in the future Twitter based PLNs may reach a ‘saturation point’. Surely, the more people who come online, the more difficult it will be to follow everything and interact meaningfully. After a point (a point you seem to have reached) would it lose its meaning?
Having said that, I’ll be doing a session on using Twitter for Professional Development at my school’s conference in about ten days time! :p
[Reply]
Gavin Dudeney Reply:
April 6th, 2011 at 3:30 pm
Dave,
It was good to meet you at ISTEK – hope the mails we’ve exchanged since send you on the way to Android nirvana
As I said – and as good people like you keep reminding me (and as I’ve said elsewhere on this blog in times past) – Twitter has much to offer people and does so on a daily basis. I’m just not sure it’s working for me anymore. I’ve got loads of work on, other stuff to do, and I’m just not getting or giving enough.
Gavin
[Reply]
Cecilia Coelho Reply:
April 7th, 2011 at 3:36 am
Hey Gavin and Dave,
Couldn’t avoid having my attention caught by the mention of Andriod Nirvana… Care to send some of those emails my way too? Am not good with technology and think my smartphone is very underestimated by me. Would love to know how to use it to its fullest.
Thanks
Cheers!
Cecilia
[Reply]
I think I know what you mean… Twitter seemed to be so much fun before (TM every new tech/game/site/band/tv show/clique) – it just gets too easy to get sucked into the information overload.
I’ guessing that the problem is that it’s difficult to be disciplined in who you follow – there are a lot of ‘quite interesting’ people out there – that’s both why it works and why it fails… it means I don’t reply as much to the people I follow – and they don’t reply as much to me, so I find fewer meaningful interactions. Just as Dave was saying above.
I think I started using it at the same time as quite a few people – so at the outset I was interacting more – I guess the same has happened to most people.
I suppose that this was a natural consequence in a way… (have a look at the comment I made here: http://slife.dudeney.com/?p=433)
That’s not to say that I don’t get anything from Twitter – I can still find things of value and interest, but maybe I need to manage the people I follow in a ‘smoother’ way.
I agree with what Richard says above – I think you are a bit of a special case – you are well-known for your expertise and people will always try to seek you out (so to speak – consider yourself an ELT Stephen Fry). For the rest of us, Twitter is still good for finding likeminded souls – I’ve not been to a conference full of ‘twitter users’ – I’ll see what that’s like at IATEFL. But I have met a number of people and started to work on a very interesting collaborative project with some of them. I’ve yet to see the dark side of twitter… but I do know it’s out there, your blog has really opened my eyes to that.
Incidentally, I am just putting the finishing touches to a blogpost about #eltpics (http://wp.me/pKva9-aQ) – that’s a really positive way of using twitter and one that uses size to its advantage.
What I really want, I suppose is a way to get back to how I found twitter at the start… Any suggestions for alternatives?
[Reply]
Gavin Dudeney Reply:
April 6th, 2011 at 4:36 pm
Phil,
I’m not sure I’m an ELT Stephen Fry – I’ll take that with a smile and a pinch of salt, but you’re kind to suggest it
I agree that many good things have come out of Twitter, one of the most important of which is making the first-time conference going easier and much more enjoyable for many people. That’s a wonderful thing and I’m not downplaying it at all. I also think it has led to much sharing, much creating and even built a few careers. And that’s all fine by me, too. I think it’s more me than Twitter, to be honest.
Looking forward to the blog post – I’m getting a ‘page not found’ on the URL at the moment. Hope to be able to say a fleeting ‘hello’ and ‘goodbye’ at IATEFL
Gavin
[Reply]
Phil Bird Reply:
April 6th, 2011 at 4:55 pm
Yeah… blog will be up after 5.30 – I’ve been playing with the WordPress scheduling tool to make sure I get it finished – it takes more procrastinating than twitter
[Reply]
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this, Gavin. I find it fascinating to hear how social media affects people’s relationships and found it particularly interesting to read what you say about the quality time you get to spend with people diminishing. So far, my two worlds are quite separate – the people I know face-to-face and those I feel I’ve come to know through twitter – so I haven’t experienced, and may not ever experience, what you describe. It’s interesting! So far, I’m still enjoying my time on twitter. That may diminish as some people cut down on their use, though
When I’m not enjoying it, or when I’m in a bad mood, I stay away and it does me good, I feel better and I get more done. But, there’s something that keeps drawing me back. Partly the people, probably, and partly being able to keep up with what’s going on in the ELT world. It’s all quite compelling still!
So, enjoy your time away from Twitter, and on the bright side (for us) there may be more blog posts!!
[Reply]
Gavin Dudeney Reply:
April 6th, 2011 at 5:06 pm
Carol,
Thanks also for your thoughts.
It’s really more about the quality time with people at conferences. I’ve noticed, as one example, that concentration levels have gone down in social situations at conferences – people are often peering over your shoulder trying to recognise another Twitter friend, or making ‘we must catch up’ signs over your shoulder as they try to get round the huge crowd of their friends. It’s like nobody has enough time to keep everyone happy, and it just seems to me that perhaps everyone ends up getting short-changed, just a little. Or maybe it’s just that I’ve become so boring since turning 47 that people are actually desperate to escape my company
And yes – the people and the news are another good side of Twitter – until it all becomes unmanageable, I think. I’m going to try and blog a bit more – though I won’t have the ‘rage stimulus’ of Twitter anymore…
Gavin
[Reply]
Thanks for all the tweets in the past Gavin … but I can understand … do keep the blog going!
Enda
[Reply]
Gavin Dudeney Reply:
April 6th, 2011 at 5:25 pm
Enda,
Absolutely! Hopefully there will be more time for obscure photos on Posterous and for writing a bit more on the blog. We’re still on for that beer in 2017, I assume?
Gavin
[Reply]
[...] a way that it could/should be used – it’d be great to read your thoughts. Stop Press – I’ve just seen a new post from Gavin Dudeney that carries on the discussion of how useful twitter is as a tool for getting ideas etc – A [...]
Folks,
I am, of course, sharing the @theconsultantse Twitter address – so if you do want to contact me, I’m having it as a read-only account, whilst Shelly and Nicky will be continuing to use it actively…
Gavin
[Reply]
Gavin,
I get it. A week ago, perhaps I wouldn’t have.
I spent last weekend in a historic house that is furnished and decorated beautifully. The owner chooses not to have a TV. The silence was something that I haven’t experienced for a long time.
Sometimes people just need to turn down the noise.
Claire
[Reply]
Anna Pires Reply:
April 7th, 2011 at 12:45 am
That’s really interesting, Claire. I chose not to have cable TV at home for similar reasons. When there’s nothing on TV, my son & I find creative things to do together.
[Reply]
Gavin Dudeney Reply:
April 7th, 2011 at 9:00 am
Claire (and Anna),
The week in the house sounds fantastic. TV is, of course, another great distractor – I’ve lived for many years in places without TVs and enjoyed every one of them. If I feel the urge to watch something there’s always t’Internet. And thank you for the expression – it does feel a bit like turning down the noise…
Gavin
[Reply]
Getting a bit worried about you, Gav. First you toss in SL, and now Twitter… You’ve always been 3-4 years ahead of the curve on these sorts of things, so I may just have to look at this as a forecast!
I see what you’re saying and feeling – there are times when I can’t palate Twitter much either. Not afraid to switch it off for days or even a week at a time, but I still do find it brilliant for links to articles and issues (and I think we are doing great things with #ELTChat), which I do often follow up and read.
But it is amazing how much you get done when you shut Twitter and FB out of your life for a bit, and there was nothing in social media that could compete with a casual meal of Italian, a bottle of red and a good chat down Lygon Street.
And got a real kick out of the quick hello on the YouTube interview with Mark!
Look forward to catching up with you again soon, somewhere, dude.
Cheers,
-J
[Reply]
Gavin Dudeney Reply:
April 7th, 2011 at 9:20 am
Ach Jason,
I think it’s worth revisiting everything we do to see if there’s a point in it, and on a regular basis. As I keep saying here, this is more about my ideas of Twitter – and the utility of it for me – than it is about Twitter itself. There are good links, of course….
I’m still not convinced about many things, even #ELTChat – the depth of critical thinking required to deal with most of the topics in any detail doesn’t seem to fit in with Twitter – there are too many one-liners and too much topic decay to build a conversation and explore the issue properly. At times it seems like a race when I watch it scroll past me on the screen. I suppose what I’m saying is that I don’t have the energy – or, as Claire says (above), I can’t deal with the noise
If you put #ELTChat on a traditional forum you’d get longer postings from fewer people, but perhaps more engagement and deeper exploration. You might lose in quantity, but gain in quality. It’s sort of like online learning – the critical thinking and development tends to happen in the forums, whilst live chat best serves the more phatic side of things. So, for me, I have to wonder which would be the most useful.
As with other postings on this subject, these are my thoughts only – no more or less valid than anybody else’s. I’m not saying any of this is good or bad, worth it or not, should or shouldn’t happen – I’m just trying to sort it out for myself.
And yes, the pizza and red wine evening probably covered about a year of possible Twitter chats. And again, I know it’s not possible for everyone to get together for pizza and red wine, so online alternatives are needed. I’m interested now in which online alternatives work, and which don’t. In the payoff from the online alternatives. Instead of jumping on each new tool or community, I think I want to spend more time wondering if there are better ways for me to engage with people, and whether those communities are detracting significantly from what people call ‘real life’.
I’ll be in Sydney late July – how about driving over for another pizza
Gavin
[Reply]
Jason Renshaw Reply:
April 7th, 2011 at 9:53 am
First and most importantly – you’ll be in Sydney in late July?
Must see if I can arrange a bit of a trip! Getting you here at the arse end of the earth twice in less than a year is a coincidence I can’t let slip.
[Reply]
Jason Renshaw Reply:
April 9th, 2011 at 1:59 pm
And secondly (sorry, had a few things going on at my own blog end of town…), there’s your reading of #ELTChat.
I don’t want to get too passionate about this, or risk making too many presumptions, because like any tool or gathering, #ELTChat works for some and not others. Personally, I find the Yahoo discussion lists, for example, boring in the extreme and a huge waste of my time in many cases as I wade through quite a lot of long-winded messages that — even in comparison to Tweets — can be incredibly self-indulgent. That’s just me, though… others love it and get a lot out of it and that’s great! On the other hand, I continue to love reading around the blogosphere, and the depth of thinking and conversation there works well at one end of my social media, whereas #ELTChat works well somewhere towards the other end (more shallow, brief, flash before your eyes, and all that).
What I LOVE about #ELTChat is the pace and the simplicity of the messages. It’s not the sort of thing that works well by referring to a transcript – you really need to be there at the time. I’ve often referred to #ELTChat as a quick collection of sparks, which in turn you can pick and choose from to have something to think about in more depth later (what I call ‘breathing the sparks into fires’). It’s quite amazing at times to see what spins off out of #ELTChat sessions to feature on blog posts. And I can honestly say I’ve had new and interesting things to think about after every session, without feeling like I’ve been in an MA seminar. Most of the messages in #ELTChat are about actual practice: what teachers are doing or often do in their classes, and/or would now like to try out in future.
I also love the fact that it caters to ‘at the chalkface’ teachers. They don’t need to get into the sort of tirades and debates that can take up weeks of Yahoo discussion group time (and don’t get me wrong, those deep debates have their value(s)), and for a working teacher an hour or two of your time per week to get in touch with hundreds of other teachers about certain general issues in our profession can be enormously uplifting. The twitter format is also, in my opinion, successful in drawing out lurkers (easy to throw in a thought, an experience, a question without looking/feeling like you’re somehow lower or less informed than certain ‘experts’). If you’re a new or shy teacher, and you pop a tweet out about something you think or have done in the classroom, and some people say they like it and retweet it, or follow up with a question to find out more… that can be gold (with a gleam many of us old(er)-timers have perhaps forgotten about).
I would also stress that many of these teachers (and I’m one of them) aren’t in the conference circuit and don’t have anywhere near the opportunities to get together and socialise and share their experiences.
For those out there who look at the optimism and enthusiasm expressed by #ELTChat participants and wonder what the heck has got them going, I would try to consider those factors – quick manageable sparks for extremely busy people working horrendous hours in what can be very isolated contexts.
Now, you’ve been careful to stress, Gavin, that it doesn’t work for you (not that I’ve seen you actually participate in an #ELTChat, mind!) but it evidently can and does work for others. I appreciate that, and earnestly hope that one quick comment from you on this doesn’t become a bandwagon-hopping exercise for those parts of your readership who may now be thinking it’s cool and sophisticated to write off or look down on teachers who get a lot out of tweeting.
- J
[Reply]
Adam Reply:
April 9th, 2011 at 2:11 pm
To continue the #ELTChat tangent, I’d like to see people bring in more links for later follow up reading. It passes quickly and the summaries could in this way let people explore the topics in more detail.
Gavin Dudeney Reply:
April 9th, 2011 at 4:51 pm
Jason,
No, I’m definitely not looking to influence anyone at all, nor am I, in fact, claiming that it’s either cool or sophisticated to write anything off. What I was trying to engage with is why people do things, and what they expect or feel they are getting out of them.
The great majority of the literature on online learning and professional development points quite clearly to the fact that real engagement with a topic, real critical thinking and knowledge construction come from asynchronous interactions – the type that occur on forums where people have time to consider incoming information, add it to their own knowledge, and push forward with fresh thinking in a reflective fashion. The same can not be said for synchronous communications, in general.
So, I do not in any way think that #eltchat is a bad idea, nor do I encourage anyone to give it up, or not get involved in the first place. My question was solely about what it really represents in terms of professional development, and how useful it might be to anyone in terms of broadening or expanding their knowledge of any given topic.
I’ll take the mobile learning one as an example – and I’m not going to transcribe anything here, because that would be rude. But if you compare the content of the #eltchat chat on mLearning and the content of (and I must stress I use this example because I have the data to hand) one of the forums on the mLearning course I was recently involved with online, there is no real comparison in terms of what was covered, and in what depth and with what conclusions or development opportunities.
The problem (at least for me) with a Twitter-based chat is that everyone seems to be talking, but hardly anybody appears to be listening – and it’s in the listening and what occurs after it that development happens. In a Twitter chat I tend to see people stating things, and those things being retweeted by those who think they are good or useful or salient, or ignored by those who don’t. What I don’t see is a conversation…
And, to my mind, it’s in the conversation that development happens. I’m all for enthusiasm, and sparks and all the rest, but – like the endless rounds of Twitter back-slapping – I do think that it works to the expense of depth, and of critical thinking. I don’t believe that a topic discussed on Twitter is a topic discussed – and I think a lot of the literature would back up that badly-worded hypothesis.
But then so what? if people are enjoying themselves and getting together then I think it’s a good thing. As I said before, the literature supports the view that synchronous lends itself much better to the more phatic side of development… group bonding, etc., and that’s fine. But I think we’re a way off before anyone will be building a development course from any tools in the Twitter range.
Gavin
Sorry to see you pull the plug on Twitter, Gavin, as I enjoyed chatting with you from time to time on there.
Deactivating your account seems a bit drastic (unless you chose to take the crafty route and left your options open to stage a comeback if you wanted to
but I understand your reasons for doing so, & hope it works out for you.
Sue
[Reply]
Gavin Dudeney Reply:
April 9th, 2011 at 9:07 am
Sue,
No – I zapped it completely. It was just that sudden realisation that I didn’t need it to have a good time with people, it was getting in the way of other things (work, real-life conversations) and that I had ceased to get any professional development out of it due to the information overload – that and the fact that any gems in the stream were getting lost in a sea of tweets lurving each other in awesome stylee
I do like the new peace and quiet, though. I think not tweeting is the new black!
Gavin
[Reply]
Dawn Reply:
April 9th, 2011 at 6:29 pm
+1 with what Sue said. I’m kind of sad that one nutjob did so much to pull you out of the Twittersphere (and deprived the rest of us of your wisdom), but in the end, there’s still the blog (especially for those of us who don’t go to conferences and are thereby deprived of the opportunity to ask you out for beer and stuff like that).
I’m not a great fan of Twitter, but I do enjoy small chats with people, and you were among them.
[Reply]
Gavin Dudeney Reply:
April 9th, 2011 at 6:36 pm
Dawn,
As with many other people, Twitter introduced me to a lot of people I might otherwise never have met. In many cases it took me to their blogs or websites, where I learnt a lot about them and their work – and from them, too. I’m now returning to Google Reader for my daily dose of stimulus.
Many others provided me with help, research, technical support and much, much more – as I did with them, I hope. Some became friends in real life – time, work, travel and geography permitting. With many I have drunk, laughed, sung and discussed at events as I go about my business.
And for all that I am extremely grateful.
However, there came a point for me where the quantity far outweighed the quality. A constant barrage makes it hard to sift the wheat from the chaff, and yes – as noted – I still wonder if there might be someone out there who might want to give me a hard time.
I think there is life beyond Twitter. I’m getting more done, both work wise and personally, have started to get through those books that have been eying me suspiciously from the Kindle and a few other things. The Inbox is empty and I find more time to spend on the cinema, eating out, etc. It feels good to be disconnected. And, who knows, maybe it’s just for a while?
Gavin
[Reply]
You still have a twitter widget at the bottom… so sad
Hope your initial break has brought some fresh air.
Cheers, Brad
[Reply]
Gavin Dudeney Reply:
April 9th, 2011 at 9:08 am
Brad,
What’s sadder is that I can’t find it in the template to remove it…. it’ll have to stay, like a tombstone to my old Twitter days
[Reply]
I was glad to hear you’d left Twitter. Mainly because I too have ended it all and now know that there is one less person that I will be missing. Good on you.
In DMs with VictoriaB52, she made the point that if I wasn’t actually in Twitter, I wouldn’t need to know about all the good stuff that I was missing. It was the argument that swung it for me. I was getting sick of Twitter: too much seemed to be dross or self-congratulatory. That was just my contribution. I felt that I didn’t really have anything to offer and wasn’t getting an awful lot out of it either. And then there was the fact that it actually seemed to limit my EFL world to a relatively small number of people. All of whom retweeted each other. There was too strong an air of the old club house and it began to make me feel a bit dirty. I felt guilty when I didn’t #FF somebody or #TT them.
To be honest, there were some gems though too. The people that I followed were – it seemed- very good people. It widened up my social network online. I don’t know if I would have come across Sean Banville, Ian James, Carol Goodey, Marisa C. et. al. if it hadn’t been for Twitter. And some of the ideas that were floated were fantastic. But, of course, the “ideas” were actually links to ideas that were, more often than not, to be found in a blog.
I doubt that I’ll be back. It was a liberating experience. I set myself free from Facebook some time ago and haven’t missed it in the slightest.
[Reply]
Gavin Dudeney Reply:
April 8th, 2011 at 10:38 am
Diarmuid,
Yes, it is a liberating experience. Constantly feeling you’re missing out on something goes out of the window, and you actually start getting things done in life again. I did catch the flu the day I deleted my account, though – so let that be a warning to people thinking of doing the same.
Facebook next. I’ll keep LinkedIn for a while, I like its staid mustiness
Gavin
[Reply]
Hi Gavin,
You can’t keep Linkedin. It’s now linked to Twitter, just like Ning
Unless, of course, you want to keep a backdoor open
Nergiz
[Reply]
Gavin Dudeney Reply:
April 9th, 2011 at 9:19 am
Nergiz,
You don’t have to link LinkedIn to Twitter, do you? At least not as far as I recall…
G
[Reply]
Nergiz Kern Reply:
April 9th, 2011 at 3:20 pm
No, you don’t but you can see what others are tweeting, I think.
Nergiz
[Reply]
I think Jason and from Adam make some good points here. Recently I’ve been researching the feelings of fellow MA students towards using the forum discussion space that is available for us in a Blackboard environment. This is not public, but a private space for both on and off site course participants. Despite this, most students do not post comments to the forum. It seems that one of the main reasons for this is a feeling that their ideas will be judged, therefore their intelligence may be questioned and the fact that the comments will remain visible could cause them embarrassment; they are anxious about revealing their thoughts, despite being intelligent people with a lot to offer. This is the case with blogs as well, people fear commenting in such a public space. As Jason says, eltchat brings out lurkers who wouldn’t want to post or comment somewhere as serious and academic as the dogme yahoo group space for example. The twitter discussions are fast moving and the chat is light-hearted and I think that is an important part of its inclusivity. Also, it is more like brainstorming than a forum for carefully considered opinions. Basically, it’s more like oral discourse. As Adam says, having links to follow up on allows participants to read more deeply into the topic if they wish to, but the chat itself is an introduction.
[Reply]
Gavin Dudeney Reply:
April 9th, 2011 at 5:01 pm
Richard,
We’re sort of in my domain now – since a lot of my work is based around online teacher development courses which are largely forum-driven. The reason our courses – and so many others – are largely based around groupwork + forum + reflective journal is that it takes people time to assimilate information and to work together as a group to push that learning forward and develop. I think the success of forums is largely dictated by the task that accompanies them, and by the group dynamic. If you foster a feeling of mutual respect and support, then the feeling of being judged simply doesn’t enter into the equation. Or at least I’ve never seen it play any significant role in over nine years of running online teacher development courses.
On our recent mLearning course, the average forum (and I just counted) generated an average of 64 postings from a group of 14 participants – or, if you like, almost five postings per person, per forum. Most of these were content and reflection-rich, rather than the ‘me too’ variety. Clearly, then, people do respond to these tasks, and do have things to say.
And just to reiterate, I am not in any way suggesting that things such as #eltchat shouldn’t exist, I was merely questioning the value of that form of communication for critical thinking and subsequent development. If that is not what people are after, then that’s fine.
Gavin
[Reply]
Richard Reply:
April 9th, 2011 at 5:58 pm
Gavin,
I realise that this is your domain and I’m very interested in the points you have raised, I’m trying to learn by articulating my thoughts and reading the comments of yourself and the others! I’d like to think that there is potential for the participant-driven, open PLE based around twitter and blogging, but perhaps you might disagree. I agree that there is potentially greater cognitive depth to a successful forum, but as you say, the dependent factor is the group dynamic, which needs to be fostered by the course tutors. I do not doubt that the framework you use is successful as it is clearly based on learning theory and experience.
I suppose the difference between the open interaction of platforms like twitter and the interconnected blogs of ELT practitioners is that there are no moderators or leaders, as there is no organised development. From the PLN post and this one I get the feeling that you don’t believe the unguided blog + twitter interaction has any real validity and that learning environments require the guiding hands of tutors and moderators, is that right?
I want to be clear that I’m not arguing against what you are saying. Regarding eltchat, I recall introducing a colleague to it once and he described it as ‘superficial’, I conceded that he had a point.
I’d also like to say that I think encouraging reflection on the validity of PLNs and twitter use is of great use to the online community. I think the number of comments on this and your PLN post suggest many people are reflecting, which must be a good thing (though not a**some in any way), so thanks for starting a great conversation!
Richard
[Reply]
Gavin Dudeney Reply:
April 9th, 2011 at 6:10 pm
Richard,
“From the PLN post and this one I get the feeling that you don’t believe the unguided blog + twitter interaction has any real validity and that learning environments require the guiding hands of tutors and moderators, is that right? ”
No, not at all. I would, however, draw a very large line in the sand between interactions on blogs and those on Twitter. Take this as one example, or Jason’s recent post on the issue of the invisibility of any LGBT figures in ELT literature. Read both of those blog entries – and the ensuing comments – and then try to picture either of those as a Twitter conversation or an #eltchat.
Clearly (at least for me) there would be no comparison. In my mind’s eye I can see Twitter generating something like the following:
teacher1elt: Something should be done about the lack of LGBT figures in ELT
teacher2elt: rt @teacher1elt Something should be done about the lack of LGBT figures in ELT
teacher3elt: I agree @teacher1elt
teacher1elt: We should lobby the publishers
teacher4elt: rt @teacher1elt We should lobby the publishers – agree!!!!
etc., etc.
I think your colleague was partially right – it does tend to the superficial a lot of the time. This is due to a variety of factors, not least of which are:
1) The limitations of 140 characters
2) The desire for everyone to ‘appreciate’ everyone else
3) A fear of rocking the boat
4) Advanced topic decay in the twitter stream
This is an interesting conversation (though clearly not ‘awesome’!!!!) – my thoughts are not around whether something should or shouldn’t exist, but rather on why it exists, what purpose it serves, and if people are aware of the limitations of it. The original post here was – as you note – about Twitter and ‘PLNs’, rather than #eltchat.
As always, I’m enjoying the conversation, and learning something along the way – and that, for me, is the difference between a conversation on a blog, and a channelling of one-line thoughts on Twitter.
Gavin
Dear Gavin,
It was a shame to see you pull the plug on your Twitter account, but I can completely understand your reasons why.
In response to your response (!) to Jason, while I agree that the Twitter chats are perhaps much less in-depth than participating in courses or reading books on a particular area of methodology, I feel that give teachers an introduction to areas that they may never have heard of or considered finding out more about. As Jason said, it’s an easy way to begin to participate in the Twitter community. But I also agree that the concept of a Twitter lifecyle is definitely one which will take hold. Ultimately you have to decide what works for you, and if that’s closing your Twitter account, then so be it.
I look forward to meeting you in person in the future!
Sandy Millin
[Reply]
Gavin Dudeney Reply:
April 9th, 2011 at 5:58 pm
Sandy,
Thanks for commenting – indeed, things like #eltchat can certainly be a good introduction to new areas for many people, and perhaps that’s a good starting point. As I’ve said, everybody’s mileage from any of these phenomena will vary. I just wasn’t getting good ‘fuel economy’ from Twitter anymore
Gavin
[Reply]
Okay Gavin – thanks for the lengthy reply.
Well, thanks and no thanks (I think you know me well enough to know that is not said in spite or annoyance!), because while indeed this exchange between us on this issue is definitely gathering depth (and is deeper than your average Twitter exchange), it is nothing at all like a manageable discussion and is layered all over with a list of things I now have to wade through point by point to try and extract what appears to be misunderstood or overgeneralised (or indeed a worthy point of difference), and yet wrap and adorn with the necessary rhetoric to ensure this is all polite and no hard feelings for this or that, etc…
So I do so hope you’ll forgive a summary:
- At no stage has the asynchronous value for discussion depth been disputed, but I would argue that it is enhanced (before, during and/or after) with synchronous discussion. We often feature pre-reading on #ELTChat topics now, and follow up with a range of relevant links to more literature on a topic as well as personal blog posts. I might even argue that we do more for interest in topics than asynchronous forum-based discussions and articles do on their own.
- It is an error, I believe, to compare the @ELTChat on mLearning with your own internal course on the same topic (just as it would be wrong to compare Nicky’s excellent presentation on the topic last year at IATEFL to your internal course). The different modes have different aims and audiences, to some degree. But I would say that Nicky’s presentation, while not creating an interactive discourse of any great depth at the time, undoubtedly gave the topic a great public scent which got people sniffing. We may not have pulled this off as well in an #ELTChat session, but the same basic thing was being aimed for: a public scent (and this time a fully open and potentially interactive one) to get more sniffing happening.
- I don’t agree that #ELTChat is just about people talking and not listening, and just stating and not interacting. I see a lot of follow up questions happening, differences of opinion and mini debates springing up. I see people RTing and sometimes quantifying or qualifying the specific RT. This doesn’t happen (yet) as much as we might like, but the mods really work on it and we’re still an evolving mode of communication. I think there are ways we can improve it as a genuine conversation, too, as we experiment and find our way forward. Yes, endless RTs don’t help our cause all that much. Let’s look at that and see if (together) we can do something about it.
- I don’t agree that #ELTChat couldn’t be considered a form of ongoing PD. Not on its own perhaps, but we’ve always viewed the exchanges on Twitter as a starting point and a meeting point. Okay, so I might consider it a facilitator of ongoing PD, which then potentially reaches for the depths you (and many others) appear to see as necessary for good serious teacher development.
Anyway, I hope you see where I’m heading with this. Try not to judge #ELTChat by criteria we’ve never claimed to try and meet. Try to see it for what we see it as: a sifting phase for topics which we presume teachers will go on with if they have resonance and create deeper interest. A welcoming arena for teachers who don’t want to write posts as long as the one I’ve just written here doesn’t automatically relegate an #ELTChat to being an enthusiastic group bonding session. Goodness – if we wanted that we’d all just go to a conference!
)) And a developing and evolving mode of communication for PD which, with the help of critical feedback from good people like yourself, we think we can continue to improve.
Cheers,
- Jason
[Reply]
Gavin Dudeney Reply:
April 9th, 2011 at 6:56 pm
Jason,
I do take all your points, because you mean them and that’s how you see things – and actually I never really wanted to get dragged in to a discussion on #eltchat on this blog posting, but it did crop up and I thought I had to share my thoughts, rather than just going along the Twitter ‘everything’s great’ line – because increasingly I feel the lack of dissent and disagreement on Twitter is not serving any of us well. By contrast, blogs DO encourage a deeper level of discourse, and the longer postings DO allow people to disagree in a civilised and cogent manner, without fear of offending (which would be much easier in 140 characters).
I don’t mind the blog comments heading in this direction at all, obviously, but it is losing sight of a bigger picture, ultimately.
I’ll have to make myself clear, if possible – I have nothing against anybody doing anything anywhere (more or less). Many people enjoy #eltchat on a weekly basis, and I think that’s absolutely wonderful. What you and the others have set up is a grand idea, and I appreciate how much work goes into it – both in moderating (as far as Twitter allows such a feature) and in the summaries on the wiki, etc. As with any other piece of hard work, I have nothing but admiration for the people who create and nurture it.
In making a comparison, I was drawing on two sources of discussion around a theme to which I have access to data. I was trying to examine the differences – in content, in quality of content, in critical thinking and in professional development opportunities. I think those are very valid considerations, and I also don’t think we keep them in mind as much as perhaps we should.
Ultimately I’m working towards trying to understand what those differences are, and what they mean to us as professionals. What purpose do each of them serve? Are we all aware of the advantages and disadvantages of each? Because I believe that is a very important part of the equation.
And we will have to agree to disagree, I think – because for me a brief look at the twitterstream at any give moment strikes me as a lot of statements, a lot of agreeing, a lot of retweeting and not so much ‘examination’.
I’m not talking about #eltchat here, I’m talking about Twitter in general. To me it never quite gets to the dizzy heights of a conversation – the more people you follow, the more the topic decay impacts on the possible conversation. People’s Internet connections, their typing speed, their language level – all of these things have an impact on how the conversation is constructed, and how it appears to each and every one of us on screen.
These are impediments to constructing a useful ‘conversation’, in my opinion.
Gavin
[Reply]
Jason Renshaw Reply:
April 9th, 2011 at 7:05 pm
Agreed on the assessment of Twitter in general, Gavin. We can agree to agree on that one (if we can agree to leave #ELTChat at least some way out of that assessment).
- J
[Reply]
Gavin Dudeney Reply:
April 9th, 2011 at 7:07 pm
Jason,
It weren’t me guv, wot brought it up originally. But it did come up, and we all had something to say about it. And I for one think that’s a worthwhile exercise. Are you still coming for a beer in Sydney in July?
G
Jason Renshaw Reply:
April 9th, 2011 at 7:07 pm
And hopefully we can have a real conversation about such matters in July when you come to Sydney
[Reply]
Gavin Dudeney Reply:
April 9th, 2011 at 7:08 pm
Jinx!
Jason Renshaw Reply:
April 9th, 2011 at 7:14 pm
Just shows great minds drink alike!
Hi Gavin
Whilst I can perfectly understand your reasons, I have to admin that I’ll miss your tweets!
Best,
Choreanne
[Reply]
Gavin Dudeney Reply:
April 9th, 2011 at 7:03 pm
Choreanne,
I suspect – ultimately – for all of us, given the number of people we follow, that someone disappearing (whomsoever s/he may be) is a temporary splash in the twitter stream. Soon I shall turn up at conferences and nobody will know who I am
Gavin
[Reply]
Choreanne Frei Reply:
April 10th, 2011 at 7:48 pm
Gavin –
I doubt that nobody will know who you are! But it is becoming increasingly difficult not to get lost in any form of social networking – I have started reducing my FB friends for this reason!
Choreanne
[Reply]
Gavin Dudeney Reply:
April 10th, 2011 at 7:54 pm
Choreanne,
Yes, it was a bit of a joke – but I do believe people have a genuine fear that if they drop something like Twitter they’re going to ‘disappear off the radar’, cease to be of any import to anyone, get smaller audiences at their conference sessions, etc. I still think, however, that people value people and their content and company, way and above anything they might tweet.
I’m regathering old Twitter chums on Facebook, which seems somewhat quieter and less frantic, less public – and therefore less prone to the ‘we all love and respect absolutely everything we all do, all of the time’ sweetness of Twitter.
Gavin
Gavin,
I suppose users do have more privacy on facebook than on twitter, particularly with regards to privacy settings (just think of the customised status update settings, etc). However, I am often surprised, or even shocked, to see how carelessly certain people display personal information (ie addresses, phone numbers, etc) online – there seems to be a general lack of awareness of the potential threats of the online communities, or the internet in general.
You said that people seem to have a general fear of disappearing off the radar it they drop Twitter and similar things – is it not worrying how many people seem to define their identity or being through the number of online friends or posts? As much as I appreciate the internet and the opportunities it offers, I am a bit worried where this may lead to.
Guess I will see you in Barcelona – pity not to receive any of your tweets about the IATEFL conference!
Choreanne
P.S. Bought ‘How to Teach English with Technology’ when it was published a few years ago; I know that it is not an old book, but, talking about technology, 2007 seems like a lifetime! Do you and Nicky (or your publisher) by any chance have any intentions of writing a second edition? If so, then maybe a chapter on cyber-bullying or the threats of the internet could be a useful chapter for many…
I would like to thank you for all the informing, thought-provoking, and entertaining tweets, blogs, articles, and comments you have given to the online community!
[Reply]
Choreanne Frei Reply:
April 10th, 2011 at 10:11 pm
Ooops, got a bit confused, meant to write Brighton, not Barcelona…
Choreanne
[Reply]
Gavin Dudeney Reply:
April 11th, 2011 at 10:44 am
Choreanne,
Yes – definitely Brighton. As usual I’ll be running around trying to keep up with my IATEFL duties as Chair of ElCom and my work on the Brighton Online project, as well as my talk and a few other things – but you’ll always find me outside in the coffee breaks with the other naughty smokers…
I think you’re absolutely right in terms of how things seem to have become a numbers game – how many followers on Twitter, how many on Facebook, how many visitors your blog gets, how many comments a blog post gets…. the number of people attending your conference talk and all the rest. It’s as if the explosion in social networking has reduced everything we do to a matter of quantity, rather than quality. Just recently it’s been nagging at the back of my head that perhaps this is the wrong way of looking at things…
In terms of the book, yes – you’re right. Methodology books on technology certainly do date quicker than most others. The book I wrote for CUP in 2000 wasn’t updated until 2007. The book you have is still, I think, a good book in terms of content – but an update would be a good thing – persuading publishers of that is another matter, though. TD books don’t make any money for publishers, generally, so it’s hard for them to justify putting resources into them on a regular basis. If we did update, you could expect to see a lot more on social networks, online safety, managing your digital footprint, etc.
The only real solution for this kind of book – in the long run – is to reduce the coats by making them into ebooks, and it’s something that Nicky and I (and others) are currently discussing. Cheaper to produce, cheaper to distribute, more easily updated – and, importantly, a larger slice of the pie for the authors.
Come and say hello in Brighton!
Gavin
[Reply]
Choreanne Frei Reply:
April 11th, 2011 at 10:54 pm
Gavin
Naughty smoker, eh? I’m a pseudo-ex-smoker, meaning that every now and then when in the mood and in good company, I quite enjoy a cigarette!
I know you’ll be busy, but I’m looking forward to saying hello.
Numbers games and bad online experiences – take your time to think everything over, and do what’s best for you… easier said than done, I believe!
Don’t get me wrong in terms of the book – it is definitely among my top five when it comes to teaching and technology books, my only point was that maybe your bad experiences should be shared or used as a warning. I know that TD books don’t really make any money, but agree that an ebook would be a great solution. Not only TD books should be published digitally, I also think other people apart from me would appreciate ebooks of teacher’s book.
See you in Brighton!
Choreanne
[Reply]
Dear Gavin,
Twitter did a lot to provide a generation of teachers who were shy about going online with e-wings. It’s also been a boon to those who can’t do much travelling. But quality time and overnetworking is clearly the issue, and you are being wise. Thanks for your warm and supportive presence here and everywhere, basically, but on Twitter
Anne
[Reply]
RT
[Reply]
Sorry – that was irrestable.
I always swore I wouldn’t touch FB with a bargepole (though the lure of ISTEK then IATELF photos was too strong) and I do totally agree with Anne’s remark.
I am surprised that you say somewhere above that FB is more private, because it seems to me that that’s the whole problem… it does give that impression, but then when they move the goalposts yr left with your pants down.
Twitter is abolutely totally and unashamedly public (you can even follow someone’s tweets with a google search using the “realtime” option on Google) and so with that a given and the 140 charaters, the rules are clear.
My initial problem with online communication was the contrast with academia, where one has to be sure to have read all the books/papers before laboriously emitting one’s own opinion/theory and whoosh …. 140 char and it’s a different game – and maybe, just maybe, you have to choose your side ?
IATEFL2011 was very differenct to IATEFL2008 thanks to twitter … though I did wonder from the start what would happen when everyone was on twitter and we’re getting there.
and BTW – 3G easily available for all ? I discovered when I came back that my provider had for some unknown reason pulled the plug on my 3G connection. just when I thought I’d sorted everything to be able to tweet the whole conf
[Reply]
Gavin Dudeney Reply:
April 23rd, 2011 at 9:07 am
Elizabeth,
With Facebook battened down like I have it, I do believe it’s more private. I agree with the quality issue, though, wholeheartedly. Suddenly everyone’s an expert on everything, from writing through publishing to teaching and beyond. In the old days one had to earn respect by producing a body of work, now a few tweets about how terrible it all is and how brilliant one’s latest blog post is and you’re well on the way to becoming a visiting professor or senior advisor…
Gavin
[Reply]
In terms of why Twitter doesn’t work for proper discussion generally, here’s a sample from today’s #eltchat on DOGME (avatars and names blurred out):
I suppose I’m wondering how much genuine communication or learning would take place in a language or teacher training classroom if everyone spoke on the same topic at the same time, and then shouted replies at selected individuals at the same time?
On our e-moderation course, in the first chat, Nicky and I usually introduce an open-ended question and solicit opinions. We then sit back and look at the ensuing chaos. People make points, some people misunderstand them and ask for clarification, some understand them and try to develop them – but they get lost in the clarifications. And occasionally someone comments on something they’ve just seen out of the window…
After ten minutes of chaos we examine how difficult that is as a task, and how it doesn’t go anywhere due to the things I’ve already mentioned (confusion, topic decay, etc.). We then move on to establishing a group consensus set of chat protocols so that conversations can have flow, logic and offer learning opportunities. So whilst I think #eltchat is a great idea, it’s the medium (Twitter just doesn’t hack it) and the lack of protocols that I believe leads to what happened in this screen shot.
I’m not taking a potshot at #eltchat here – just trying to clarify my position on Twitter and its usefulness for development and growth.
Gavin
[Reply]
Richard Reply:
April 27th, 2011 at 5:51 pm
You ain’t letting it lie are you?! We can see who the blurry people are, by the way!
I must say, I missed most of it today and tried to follow the last 15 minutes, it was really fast and comments were flying by on my tweetdeck. Your examples here clearly show confusion and misunderstanding, but it would be interesting to hear what the participants say and whether they feel that they took anything away from the chat in terms of learning. For me, the discussion that has been going on on Diarmuid’s blog had already covered various things that I saw flying past in today’s chat, which I suppose supports your point: managementspique.wordpress.com/
Do you think there is anything that could be done to improve the way that eltchat works? Or do you think it has little potential?
[Reply]
Gavin Dudeney Reply:
April 27th, 2011 at 6:12 pm
Richard,
I think it’s a brilliant idea, and with certain topics would love to join in, but Twitter just doesn’t do ‘chat’ for me…
Maybe it’s just me – I’m starting to feel old
Gavin
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hi Gavin,
So glad I found this blog as it explains why I couldn’t see you anywhere on Twitter. I joined two years ago and have tweeted approximately 5 times … Somehow just not ‘getting it’ – tonight I thought I’d give it a good go and try to work out what I was missing and thought I’d start with you as there would definitely be something interesting to read… Then began to doubt my eyesight as I couldn’t find you… Now I see why. In my little excursion on to Twitter tonight I had fun lurking on some trends but none of it motivated me to join in. Something about the chopped up nature of the discourse makes it seem like a code between old friends who have a wealth of shared understanding. But that understanding (which may not actually exist) is not necessarily articulated and if you feel you’re out of the loop it’s scary or foolhardy to jump in. Where you have more chance to say what you mean, and hear others’ more considered thoughts it feels a lot more like real communication somehow. So keep blogging I say……BTW good to see you in Brighton, thanks for taking the photie! Tilly
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Gavin Dudeney Reply:
April 29th, 2011 at 8:13 am
Tilly,
I don’t think I got Twitter for some time, then I did get it, and finally I got that it wasn’t for me anymore, and that’s where I am now – I just couldn’t stand the emptiness of much of the discourse, or the ceaseless “we all love each other” stuff that it had become.
Having said that, however, there are a lot of people I miss from Twitter, and I’d say that generally the ELT crowd are as frendly a bunch of people as you’ll ever meet. This is particularly true of the #eltchat folk, who make it as easy and as welcoming as they can each week to those who want to join in with the different subjects.
As I said above, it may just be me who’s incapable of following a ‘conversation’ on Twitter, though I’m not entirely convinced that’s the case. I still see blogs as the perfect space for asynchronous reflection in groups, and a decent moderated chat space as the ideal place for synchronous chat, but everyone’s mileage will vary, I think. Twitter’s a grea place for research and sharing resources.
Good to see you in Brighton,
Gavin
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Hey Gavin-
Was just thinking it’ll be 3 months soon that you left twitter. I’d love to have your reflection on what it’s been like since. Hope you’re well.
Cheers, Brad
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Gavin Dudeney Reply:
June 24th, 2011 at 11:05 am
Brad,
To be honest I haven’t missed it in the slightest – once a day I take a look at the Consultants-E feed that Shelly and Nicky manage, just to keep up with what’s going on. Apart from that, I can’t say I miss the love fest, the inspirational quotes, the photos of cute animals, the poems or anything else… Very much enjoying people’s blogs, still
Gavin
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Brad Patterson Reply:
June 24th, 2011 at 10:32 pm
Hmm…
wonder if I’ll ever ‘get there’. And I hear ya, the blogs are the true substance and tweets are often the medium by which i find ‘em.
Merci 4 the update. And have a blast at Ken’s on sunday (jealous) Cheers, b
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