Mass Debates

Posted: 2nd May 2011 by Gavin Dudeney in General

Here we go again… Spring is in the air and it’s time for another round of ‘ed. tech specialist’ versus ‘tech sceptic’. And we have recently had a couple of large-scale debates to further push the envelope of informed discussion: the ELTJ debate at IATEFL, and the spate of blog postings this past Sunday.

Mass Debates

Let’s first start with ‘the debate’ – the one my colleague Nicky was involved in at IATEFL this year. This was the ELTJ debate on technologies in language teaching. Firstly it’s worth bearing in mind what this event was, and what it was about – since there seems to have been a great deal of confusion in some people’s minds.

This was, first and foremost, a debate in the UK style – for those who are not familiar with it, it is almost always adversarial in nature, and the two speakers are encouraged to argue two very polarised views. It is not a ‘nasty’ event: the two people know why they’re there, and what’s expected of them. It is done in good humour and with social drinks afterwards, and a dinner the night before – it’s friendly, challenging, intense – but nobody gets hurt, in any sense of the word.

Secondly, this debate was categorically NOT about Twitter, despite the fact that many people stopped reading when they finished the ‘pun’ part of the title and never quite made it to the abstract for the session, which quite clearly indicated that it was about technologies in language learning and teaching. I suppose it’s an indication of Twitter’s popularity that people got caught on the opening part of the title – sort of Twitter blindness…

Now most people who witnessed the debate – either in person or online – generally agreed that Nicky had won the day, and I’d go along with that (well, I would, wouldn’t I?). But to be honest, Alan’s heart was never really in the corner he was supposed to be arguing – he made that abundantly clear the day before (apparently) and also at the post-debate drinks. But he played along, did a stirling job, and took Nicky’s ‘gloves off’ approach amiably on the chin.

On a recent blog post it was suggested that the inclusion of a Twitter feed during Nicky’s part (I helped set that up on her request) was a bit ‘mean’, and that it gave her more fire power than she needed. Depends how you look at it, really – in my world it allowed the people watching the live stream to have their say, along with the f2f crowd, and that seemed fair enough to me. And, in a way, it exposed the weakness of Twitter in the face of a real debate: lots of strident views (get with the modern ways, daddy-o!) mixed up in a huge jumble, confusing people in the room and – in the case of one speaker from the floor – distracting her from Nicky’s well-researched and supported argument.

Twitter lost, then, as a tool for discussion, but it won as a tool for giving a voice to the remote participants, and as a sledgehammer to crack Alan’s resolve :-) and in a way those were the two key reasons for doing it. And of course it’s not only Twitter that encourages trite one-liners and non-sequitors…. There was even a ‘get with the modern ways, daddy-o’ from the floor – which just goes to show that technology doesn’t have a monopoly on this kind of unhelpful reasoning!

But really the actual debate was not so much ‘won’ as it was ‘lost’. Lost because Alan’s heart wasn’t in it, lost because (as the majority of speakers from the floor showed) the majority of thinking people these days see a role for technology in teaching. The bulk of the audience was sympathetic to technologies, and why not?

Those technologies allow them to write and publish books, to research their work, to gain access to images and texts for their lessons, to communicate with other professionals, to attend conferences online and all the rest. And most of those will see that keeping their learners away from the same opportunities is ridiculous. Yet there are still some who think it’s all alright for them, for their learning and their careers, but not for the poor little mites who are in their charge…

And so we come to the second debate, the dull, unending debate which seems to polarise around dogme (or unplugged teaching) and ed. tech. The debate that keeps on giving. Personally I reckon we should just get together on the playing fields at some point and duke it out.

We tech people may be a little more out of shape than the ‘dogmatists’ (due to all those uncritical hours playing with our shiny knobs in dark rooms), but there’s strength in numbers, and a cursory glance at the IATEFL programme will show anyone that we have the numbers, still.

These days they call themselves ‘tech sceptics’ – and I admire their self re-branding because it puts them on the moral high ground, and is based on the single most important weapon in their armoury against those of us who work with ed. tech – the ‘you’re all a bit too thick, uncritical and seduced by shiny knobs’ attack, which is always at the forefront of their approach.

This week saw a resurgence of the tired, dogged ‘dogme versus ed. tech’ debate with a plethora of posts on ed. tech on Sunday. And I was struck once again at the assumption (sometimes stated, always implied) that those of us who work in ed. tech have somehow lost our critical faculties, or (please tell me this isn’t what they all think!?) that we never had any. The discussion is centred around Scott Thornbury’s ‘T is for Technology’ post, and I think he’d be disappointed (not really, obviously) if I didn’t respond, albeit on my own blog ☺

Perhaps we ARE the digital natives – savage, uneducated, unable to evaluate…. Perhaps the dogme acolytes come in shiny coracles to teach us the word of the Lord and to free us from our ignorance? I’m not sure, but I’d love one of those reflecting silver things, some beads and a fire stick if any of you are in the neighbourhood…

It wasn’t just me who picked up on this line of attack. Soon after the barrage of posts started, Emma Herod posted this tweet:

Does the “pedagogy must come before tech use” argument, not assume us teachers are a tad thick? Isn’t this obvious? Sorry…

And I realised that her succinct message was what had been bothering me all day. Reading a blog post that says something along the lines of “when I last taught in a school people used to show videos when they wanted a fag break. Don’t talk to me about ed. tech – there’s no critical thought, no evaluation, no pedagogy…” it implies that tech use is indeed uncritical, that teachers using technology don’t give a fig for pedagogy and – as Emma so correctly identified – it suggests that we are all just a little bit ‘thick’. And I’m not sure that is polite, fair or warranted. Not in my experience working with teachers, at any rate.

The inference, you see, is that unlike any other professionals in the world, teachers of English who engage with technologies in their teaching are permanently stuck in the ‘peak of inflated expectations’ section of Gartner’s hype cycle, and so blinded by the shiny that we never, ever get to the ‘plateau of productivity’. Too thick, you see? Can’t be done guv!

I’ll be the first to admit that I am an early adopter, but it gives me time to let a new tech bed down and think about it a little. As Tennyson said, it’s better to have loved and lost, than never to have loved at all. If you’re writing about things you’ve only heard / read about, then techn(olog)ically speaking, you’ve never really loved at all.

Of course ‘unplugged’ teaching can be done by anyone, from the teacher with classes of 200 in China, to the teacher who qualified this morning, business teachers (who, apparently, have no real need to know any ‘business’ vocabulary), teachers of young learners and all the rest. Truly it is the magic bullet of ‘approaches’ or ‘methodologies’ or ‘states of mind’ (what it is depends on the day, and the video you’ve chosen to watch). Nobody’s too thick for that, or so it would seem…

And, presumably it follows that unplugged teachers are all lovely, reflective people who spend all day thinking about their teaching and their learning, their learners and their needs and all the rest. Not for them the ‘thick’ world of the ed. tech enthusiast…

In the cold light of this Bank Holiday Monday as I sit in Gatwick Airport waiting to fly back to Barcelona, however, I’m beginning to like this ever-present inference a lot more. If that’s the best they’ve got, then I don’t see much of a bright future for the rest of the arguments.

But of course they mustn’t be ignored, so let’s take a closer look…

There’s Postman, of course – the current poster boy of the terminally unplugged. I won’t waste my time on him here, but if you’re interested in finding out why he’s irrelevant in the web 2.0 era, please see an earlier entry here. You’ll be amazed to hear that Postman has the same kind of disdain for our friends electric, from a similarly comfortable, woolly middle-class viewpoint. Witness his incredible lack of empathy for anyone other than himself, and his complete failure to grasp the significance of any technology other than ones he needs and uses. Sound familiar? It should…

Ponder his clever question: what is the problem which this technology was invented to solve? Help him formulate a reasonable question: how might this technology improve any aspect of my life (or indeed anyone else’s?) How might it contribute to teaching and learning? I do believe if he had lived longer and in a less rarefied field, he may have been able to identify with people of different social status, economic outlook, job requirement. Alas, alack, Saint Postman fails to ask the questions that the ‘tech sceptics’ would have we ed. tech people ask. He must be a bit thick, I reckon…

There was talk this weekend of ‘educational software’, and there I have some sympathy with the tech sceptics, for much of the software produced over the years has been a tad disappointing. The CDs, the DVDs, the IWB software and now the apps…. Lots of unimaginative exercises and gap fills, etc. However, there’s another underlying assumption there, and that is that ed. tech enthusiasts are actually using these products. It’s another Postman-era red herring, however.

In all my years of working with ed. tech and teachers, in all the courses I’ve run, on all the mailing lists I subscribe to, I’ve rarely come across a teacher who uses these products. Rather, the ed. tech people I know use web 2.0 tools and similar. You wouldn’t find a self-respecting ed. tech teacher working with CDs and the like. I think you may be confusing us with the degenerate form of the tech sceptic there…

As I argued in my talk on mobile learning at IATEFL this year, it’s transformative tech that we like. It’s the tech that encourages creation and production, creativity and communication. It’s the tech of the app, not the tech of the ELT app or the CD. No, we’ll leave the ‘software’ (quaint word…) to those who don’t know what they’re doing and are having a bit of a dabble before writing a damning blog post.

So no, I don’t think there’s a problem with the delivery model – some people are just stuck back in the nineties looking at the wrong one. And that will, of course, create a perception and an inference of a problem – which is not the same as an actual problem. We can see what you’re trying to do here, we’re not thick, you know! Oh no, wait a minute…

There’s also, apparently, a ‘theory vacuum problem’ that seems to have an issue with lists of uses for web tools such as Wordle, etc. The ‘theory vacuum’ states that the techno-tail is wagging the pedago-dog. But is that actually the case? And isn’t that again predicated on the notion of ed. tech people as uncritical simpletons?

When someone posts a blog post entitled (as an example) ’5 ways of using Wordle in class’, do the tech sceptics assume that those five ways are all based around the notion of making pretty pictures with words and stuff to make the students go ‘coo!’

Or could it possibly be that the writer has thought a little about the potential use of Wordle pictures for practising certain structures, revising vocabulary, pre-teaching key vocabulary for a reading or listening activity etc., etc.? Perhaps it’s a little deeper than it appears… And maybe the tech sceptics are imagining what’s on those lists, rather than actually reading the blogs? And maybe they just hate practical ideas from people who have tried them out.

The easy way to belittle these is, of course, to attach big critical labels to them and hope some of it rubs off and discredits everything. Indeed, someone tweeted about the ‘no smoke without fire’ approach. The Sun newspaper in the UK has been using this approach very successfully for years: ‘Prince denies having third nipple’ works a treat… That way everyone knows (or at least suspects) that he does have a third nipple. Otherwise, why would you ask?

When tech sceptics can prove that not using a coursebook / using a coursebook / favouring TBL over CLT / never using translation / adopting a GT approach or any other ‘method’ is effective / more effective than any other in all scenarios – when there is real evidence then perhaps the ed. tech people will join in and give you some. In the meantime I’d like to remind all the tech sceptics that it was my colleague Nicky who provided research evidence to back up her motion in the ELTJ debate, not Alan.

And what of the ‘attention deficit problem’? I was really, really interested in this, but then a bee flew in the window and before I knew it I was in Oslo with a pocket full of wooden birds and a Thompson Twins’ single. That’s the modern world for us. At the IATEFL conference Jim Scrivener talked of ‘hyperlink heroin’, and it’s a terrible thing, apparently. Not content with being devoid of any critical powers, we’re also addicted to the drug of information, or so they say.

Yet I can do a good solid morning’s research without nipping over to YouTube for a quick rickroll, and so can many of my peers. So exactly where IS this new attention deficit really taking hold? Is it in the new ‘digital natives’ (please – we ed. tech people have moved on from that term to the more reasonable ‘digital resident’ – come over to the dark side and join us)? Well, the tech sceptics would have you believe that they don’t exist, that they’re simply a marketing term to frighten we older folks and enforce the use of technology in education. So if they don’t exist, and we oldies can still pursue a relatively complicated argument or line of research, who exactly is this ‘attention deficit’ really effecting?

Saint Carr – the man who managed to eke out a one page particle of conjecture into a whole book called The Shallows is the new hero in this regard. And indeed there is some evidence to suggest that technology is affecting the way we think, but it’s scant at best. And there are many alternative viewpoints, as I tweeted recently with regard to a Guardian think piece about the book. Or maybe try the Telegraph article, ‘is the Internet making Nicholas Carr stupid?‘. Different points of view are important, I think.

We will, of course, need to wait a good generation and a half before we can really tell what this new connected world is doing to us, but the new science of brain plasticity clearly demonstrates that adaptation and re-configuration of the brain has been a constant in our development. And there’s no evidence as yet that our new world is going to generate a whole new species of human who get distracted by squirrels and can’t read more than a sentence without taking a break. So please don’t let them tell you otherwise.

And finally there is the ‘added value problem’, or so they tell me. Some people just don’t see the need to use technologies, apparently. But then we’re told to think of the learner, that it’s all about the ‘people in the room’. So how does this ‘teacher doesn’t see the need to use technologies’ fit into this comfy model of learner-centredness? See, if I was the person in your room, you’d be doing some solid grammar translation work with me, because that’s what I like, and it served me well when I was learning Spanish or French. And I’d be the client.

But then imagine if I pulled out my mobile phone and wanted to record myself for you to correct? Or asked if we could, maybe, do some email work with a native speaker in, say, Russia? Or if we could work on a wiki to improve writing strategies? Or…? Would it be alright for the teacher to ‘not see the need’? What happens then to the people in the room?

To play this against the issue of discarded technology and the environment, well, I haven’t got the time – but if anyone wants to play that game, then they should sell their microwaves, washing machines, fridges and all the other white goods. And stop using computers.

I’m not sure where I’m left here. I spend a large part of my time promoting balance and a critical approach to technologies. I am as happy in a classroom where people are not using tech as I am in one where they are. I just want to know what went into that decision – and in fact that’s the focus of a long-term research project I’m currently involved in in Russia. It’s less writing and talking about it, and more actual fieldwork to find out why.

If we are to be accused of being less than critical in our approach to ed. tech, then I think we can rightly accuse the tech sceptics of being less than open in their attitudes to tech. A lot of this is, of course, born from lack of experience. We can learn a lot from each other, but not if it’s as polarized as the ELTJ debate is. The trouble is, I do believe that the ed. tech people can teach effectively without technology, I just wonder if the tech sceptics could do the same with?


  1. Very much agree with the substance here, despite (or perhaps precisely because of) being a dyed in the wool Doghead. Even raised an abridged (and less entertaining) version of your argument over on this blog: http://managementspique.wordpress.com/2011/04/30/just-say-no/#comments

    Everyone should play fair: if you expect hard evidence from one side to support their approach, you shouldn’t wait to be asked for your own evidence for your approach – you should be hanging it out the windows. And as hard evidence in language learning research is scant on both sides, perhaps live and let live, or “don’t knock it ’til you’ve (really) tried it” would be exercising the precautionary principle appropriately.

    That said, I also happen to be one of those who actually does try to follow through with the ecological footprint argument outside the classroom as well as in it and avoid acquiring needless white goods and shiny precious (and yes, I am typing this on a Mac which costs the earth in both senses, but it’s having a good run and is held together with tape in places, so there), and I do think that there is a lot of sense in this, and that it ought to be a human imperative. But I also recognise that the world won’t only be saved by retrenching to a less wasteful way of life; it also needs innovation, now more than ever, and at speed, and for this, “the people in the room” may be enough for starters, but how will the rest of the world find out if they strike paydirt?

    By extension, as you say, with a whole world of people and learning affordances out there, why think of the classroom as a hermetically sealed microclimate? Of course, it isn’t one, but Gavin, do you really think that anyone really sees it that way? And isn’t your argument “if person X reminds people Y to critically reconsider the impact of habit Z,then X clearly considers every instance of Y to be an imbecile” a bit of misdirection too?

    Well, I couldn’t simply agree with you, now, could I? Thanks for the thoughtful and annoyingly entertaining read (even for a Doghead…)

    [Reply]

    Anthony Gaughan Reply:

    PS: The fact that Alan Waters’ heart wasn’t in it was plain to see; I wonder why then he accepted to take part? I appreciate that ELTJ Debates are mainly fun, but it would have been much more fun to see someone give Nicky Hockly a real run for her money (because, as you say, she din’t win the debate, it was ceded at the outset, which is no fun at all…) Not that I expect you to have an answer, but it can’t hurt to ask.

    [Reply]

    Gavin Dudeney Reply:

    Anthony,

    Glad to have entertained you – blogging does get so dreary and preachy sometimes, doesn’t it? I’m also glad that we’re largely in agreement on most of what I wrote – which is at it should be, I reckon. I don’t see what we need to disagree about. In fact, as Nicky has just pointed out over on Scott’s blog, both her and Alan were arguing for a principled use of technology, which is what I’ve been writing about on this blog for a few years now – and what most people would say is the only sensible way forward. Provided, of course, that this ‘principled’ approach is applied to any other facet of our teaching.

    Gavin

    [Reply]

  2. David says:

    Gavin,

    You said it so well. Lots of points that I had in my head but because I’m doing so much multi tasking these days – just couldn’t manage to communicate :)

    Especially the point about thinking that teachers aren’t responsible or capable enough to plan for educational outcomes when using technology.

    I find the whole notion of “no technology” for language teaching really farcical. Given all you mentioned and I can (and will) add much more. There is a major lack of awareness of what exactly technology can do vis a vis learning and especially language learning. I’m involved in making a video corpus of language of millions of spoken video clips. Soon teachers will be able to pull up any grammar point, function, chunk, vocab and get examples in context immediately. This is one example – that technology can really bring massive amounts of info/data into usable form for the classroom. Many others too.

    I also think there is a lot of push back from teachers vis a vis tech because they just don’t get the time or support for adequate training. On top of that many employers push tech as a business solution and not a pedagogic one. The result – teachers rebel and resist.

    agree with all the above except about Postman. But we can agree to disagree…..

    Well said.

    David

    [Reply]

    Gavin Dudeney Reply:

    David,

    Sure, we can agree to disagree about Saint Postman – I know a few other people who like him too, and we’re still friends :-) I’d be interested to hear more about your video corpus project when you have some time.

    Gavin

    [Reply]

  3. Ed says:

    Hi Gavin

    I have a couple of comments. The first is about how dogmeists and ed-tech people present their ideas at conferences. This usually feels like a top-down, this is how you should be doing it, affair. Now, the role of the expert is important, no doubt, I have learnt a lot from alot of them, but isn’t there a battle taking place in each conference session? There is a battle for hearts and minds, for various reasons.

    At conferences action is often talked about, arms are twisted, methodological battles won and lost, but wouldn’t it be better if workshops were relocated and were a place where participant teachers’ learning was the focus? What did teachers take from this debate, for example (I haven’t seen it)? An example of how hashtags can be setup to provide a back channel into the classroom, how to setup and conduct UK style debate?

    Often, self interest, or perhaps interest, underpins reasons for attending these conferences and the participant, novice loses, when compared to the ‘expert’. The attendee leaves with bucket fulls of ideas, perhaps new ‘learnt concepts’ they might even try out some of them, these are incorporated into their arsenals, but long term, who knows. Workshops and conferences have huge potential for being places where networks of learning (beyond tweetin’ link sharing and face poking) could be grounded. Participants could then research chosen issues in their own classrooms, the findings of which are then shared (perhaps at another conference). This bottom up approach, could situate conferences as places of learning and not performance (what is Alan has a stomach ache). I think participants should find out what works for them and share it, the solution may or may not come from a conference talk.

    My second point is about winning and losing, again. In this adversarial, debate there is winner and a loser. I think people do get hurt.

    Finally, I must say I was drawn here by the title (brill-ee-aunt) and didn’t expect to write this, so thanks for letting me articulate.

    Ed

    [Reply]

    Gavin Dudeney Reply:

    Ed,

    Thanks for your comment. I think *everyone* speaking at a conference has something to sell everyone else – sometimes it’s as simple and obvious as a coursebook or methodology title, at others it’s an idea, a ‘way of thinking’, an approach, a methodology. You name it. Although I think most of us think and believe we are sharing something good, it seems only human to me to suppose that most of us believe passionately in what we do, and would like others to do the same. Hence the battle for hearts and minds.

    I think workshops are different – they allow for more sharing and are often more ‘horizontal’ in terms of hierarchy. But that’s an over-generalisation. I’ve seen one-person-band workshops followed by talks which generated mush discussion and sharing. These things happen. Debates such as the ELTJ debate are not really intended to teach people much, or change hearts and minds – they are, largely speaking, an entertainment provided by two experts in any given subject matter.

    It probably depends on the conferences you go to, but at IATEFL I had plenty of opportunities to share in the sessions I attended, and I don’t think they’re all necessarily top down. Depends on the speaker, the subject matter, the format of the session and much, much more.

    I don’t believe people get hurt in these debates – they may get frustrated at not achieving their aim, but they are – at least in terms of the ELTJ debate – supposed to be adversarial and fun. That’s what I saw this year.

    I do like a poor-quality pun title, and I appreciate a good comment – thanks!

    Gavin

    [Reply]

  4. Luan says:

    A quality riposte but I knew someone would raise the tu quoque argument that people who use technology shouldn’t criticise and eschew it in the classroom. There’s nothing wrong with using technology for general learning and communication outside the classroom. It’s when it comes inside that it has the potential to waste time by being unconducive to developing language skills.

    [Reply]

    Gavin Dudeney Reply:

    Luan,

    Thanks for your comment. My point is not about being critical – the point is that there are many trainers who use technology for most of their working day and see the advantages and benefits. It’s quite possible that they are no longer teaching, and have a distant memory of video lessons and gap-fills which does not equate to the reality of ed. tech in 2011 – this is why they often fail to grasp the potential of web 2.0 (and other) technologies for teaching.

    I’m afraid I can’t agree with you that ed. tech in class is ‘unconducive to developing language skills’ and I could go back as far as 1996 and tell you about the email penpal exchange I ran with a small group of FCE learners as one illustrative point.

    They wouldn’t write for me, the school or the exams – but they would write to someone who interested them (and no, that wasn’t me, or the ‘people in the room’ – it was for someone their age, in the States and from whom they had a genuine interest in learning and in sharing cultures). Not only did they enjoy the writing, but they did it far more regularly than they would otherwise have done, and their writing (i.e. ‘language skills’) improved immeasurably over the months.

    We did it in class (often) because it was there that they found the time and the confidence to do it. They shared with their colleagues, they helped each other out – sometimes they came to me for help or advice. But, you see, it was exactly the calm and ‘quiet’ nature of the classroom that gave them the opportunity to do this – outside the class they had other things to do, other interests, distractions and irritations.

    I think the ‘in class’ v ‘out of class’ is not only a huge red herring designed to keep an old school grip on the teacher’s control and superiority in the teaching space, but it is also a tacit acknowledgement that teachers fear using technology in class (and with good reason, since nobody’s giving them any training) and fear losing the control they currently have.

    Technology can be used well and used badly – in class and out. It depends on training, experience, creativity and all the other skills that we value so highly n good teachers. However, many many thousands of teachers around the world are engaged in ed. tech enhanced teaching which certainly is not ‘unconducive to developing language skills’, and to suggest otherwise somehow belittles the great work a lot of them are doing.

    I read your ‘technology is like ice cream’ blog entry with interest. It still worked when I substituted ‘technology’ for anything else we think is useful in teaching, including ‘teaching unplugged’…

    Best,

    Gavin

    [Reply]

    Anthony Gaughan Reply:

    Gavin, you write: “It’s quite possible that they are no longer teaching, and have a distant memory of video lessons and gap-fills which does not equate to the reality of ed. tech in 2011 – this is why they often fail to grasp the potential of web 2.0 (and other) technologies for teaching.”

    How is this suggestion of yours (and Emma Herrod’s) different from your critique of others who you believe are treating their teacher audiences as if they were devoid of critical faculties?

    Seems to me that if a teacher was able to make intelligent judgements about the value of resources for learning in their active days, they would be able to do so even in their “retirement”, as it were (presuming they have first hand experience of said new resources, of course, which you do in your “why isn’t sauce for the goose also sauce for the gander?” argument).

    Do I have too much faith in older teachers’ capacity to adapt to new conditions? Or have I misinterpreted your argument?

    [Reply]

    Gavin Dudeney Reply:

    Anthony,

    I’m not sure if you’ve misinterpreted me or not – it’s still early in the morning and not enough coffee has been drunk. My point is that often ‘tech sceptic’ critiques rely far too heavily on sources which are, at best, outdated.

    We see quotes from the 70s on the destructive nature of TV, from the 80s on the facile content of TV, we see pre web 2.0 Postman and his comments on technology and we hear people talking about when they were teaching and how people used to use Fawlty Towers when they fancied a coffee break.

    My point, I suppose, is that we need to be looking at what’s happening in classrooms now, and not what we remember from a distant past, or what people thought of technologies when they were almost all inherently unidirectional: from the producer to the consumer. Things have changed a lot recently.

    Critical faculties work (or should do) across the board. Teachers do not lose them when they see something that plugs in. Experience, however, is a different thing. If all one has to reference in the ed. tech world is poor and lazy use of video materials, or people doing gap fills on an old PC, then it strikes me as blindingly obvious that one won’t see the potential of all that has come since then. Those working with new technologies, however, do.

    As part of the research I’m doing in Russia, I’m privileged to watch teachers working with ed. tech, talk to them, to their learners, to training institutions and decision and policy makers – this kind of data is invaluable in getting a broader and more rounded picture.

    Best,

    Gavin

    Luan Reply:

    Gavin, you wrote,

    “I’m afraid I can’t agree with you that ed. tech in class is ‘unconducive to developing language skills’“

    I said that it has the potential to. Sometimes teachers misuse tech, overuse tech or use poor content and programmes. You should see some of the stuff Chinese courseware makers and institutions put out. Much of it takes the form of

    grammar translation
    text-book-on-a-screen
    explicit rule teaching
    error-ridden and moribund idiom explanations
    grammar, usage, spelling and punctuation errors
    heavy use of translation
    heavy dependence on L1
    heavy use of text over listening
    no speech recognition
    crass content
    lack of structure
    lack of aims

    A firm called ‘Dr Eye’ is a particularly bad offender in these respects, but they make a lot of money. This is all too often what edutech is about. . .

    [Reply]

    Gavin Dudeney Reply:

    Luan,

    That’s what bad ed. tech is like, for sure!

    As I’ve said elsewhere on this post, though – the real ed. tech integrators wouldn’t touch 90s ‘software’ with a bargepole. so whilst this kind of rubbish may be out there, I’ve rarely seen it being used by anyone who knows anything about ed. tech at all.

    Gavin

  5. Hmm….

    In short, what I was trying to say was that we don’t tend to lose our critical faculties in the face of something new – most teachers I know are thinking people. However, it is easy to lose perspective on current trends if we’re not:

    a) aware of them
    b) aware of how people are using them on the ground

    Gavin

    [Reply]

  6. Ann Foreman says:

    Just posted a link to this on the TeachingEnglish facebook page http://www.facebook.com/TeachingEnglish.BritishCouncil if you’d like to check for comments.

    Please feel free to post there when you have anything you’d like to share.

    Best,

    Ann

    [Reply]

    Gavin Dudeney Reply:

    Ann,

    Thanks for this – much appreciated.

    Gavin

    [Reply]

  7. Nice read.

    David’s point of businesses pushing tech (as an employer or a commerce) certainly does jade many educators who often believe in a more open system, and shy away from ‘business motivations’ like kryptonite.

    I aslo agree with David’s “well said” and I’ve said it before, I love your writing style, Gavin. However, the whole article seems more of a “pushing down of techsceptics” than addressing the main point. Honestly, the jokes are funny but I think they detract from us taking your points more seriously. What do you think?

    What is the worth of tech, in what circumstances and how can we use it to optimize education? IMPORTANT QUESTIONS and one’s that I believe aren’t being asked enough before making choices on inclusion or exclusion of tech.

    You and I discussed the myriad of ways to learn languages in the Postman post, so there is obviously no “right” answer, but there might be a “righter” answer for certain situations. Those are the questions that teachers need to be asking themselves, and observing again and again in their classroom.

    These days I see tech as an amazing tool for autonomous learning, but question to what extent it should have a privileged place in the classroom. This is because I believe expression and activating one’s language is most important for acquisition… ironically this is why I have always personally chosen to not learn in a classroom but in a real environment.

    In an #ELTchat Barb Sakomoto mentioned the artificiality of a classroom, and it struck me as true, but also a direction from which I have always tried to move away from— towards reality and personalized ‘acting’ to create a more natural repetition and exploration of language. For me, this lines up with the acolytes of Dogme, but it doesn’t mean that there can’t be a computer somewhere in the mix.

    A pleasure as always, exploring with you. Cheers!

    [Reply]

    Gavin Dudeney Reply:

    Brad,

    Thanks once again for joining me over here on my blog.

    In terms of writing style, I think there are plenty enough stuffy blogs out in the world that take themselves far too seriously for me to need to add to them. I see no contradiction in trying to push some content out and give people a little bit of amusement, where possible. I view writing pretty much as I view speaking at conferences: content is the keystone, but it’s pretty good to be entertained and stimulated as well. There’s nothing worse (at least for me) than someone droning on (in either screen or f2f format).

    And, again, I reckon people reading this blog are clever enough to pick up on the content and not get distracted by the jokes. If it means you take me less seriously, then I’m sorry – but there is content in there to be found. Next post I promise to be deathly serious and not have any fun at all :-)

    Business pushes a lot of things in our profession. In some countries it’s blond-haired, blue-eyed teachers that are the currency of the marketplace, in some it will be ‘native speaker teachers’, and in others it will be technology. That’s the thing about market forces and marketing – they don’t care about the things we care about, really. However, they often drive the economic success of schools, and keep some people in a job. I’m not saying that’s a good thing, it’s just how it is – and I don’t think it has a great bearing on teachers – teachers can still use tech creatively and in a ‘principled’ fashion, regardless of whether they’ve chosen it, or it’s been foisted on them by an unthinking DoS or marketing bod.

    I’d like to know how some people have decided that questions surrounding the ‘worth’ or ‘usefulness’ of technology are not being asked by people using it? Where’s the evidence of this? Because it if’s based around a critique of the ’7 ways to use Wordle in class’ blog posts, then the whole theory is on shaky ground. So, perhaps somebody reading this – and who holds this opinion – could enlighten me as to the data sources.

    You’d like to think – wouldn’t you – that teachers ask themselves these questions on a daily basis – not just about technology, but also about anything else they bring to the classroom, or do in the classroom? I don’t assume they don’t, you see?

    I don’t think anyone’s really calling for ed. tech to have a ‘privileged’ place in the classroom. Most ed. tech people would be happy if it had any place at all (where possible), as part of a balanced diet – but sadly that is a long way from the reality. Again, I return to the buzzword of my blog: balance.

    Look forward to reading you more.

    Gavin

    [Reply]

    Brad Patterson Reply:

    Thanks for the reply.

    I totally agree with you on delivery of content being important, and that content should be the keystone. I like making my tweets, blog posts, and day to day conversation a peppery fun style as well, and honestly that’s part of what I really like about your blog.

    I’ve just re-read your post to try to see it a bit more objectively. My point isn’t that their jokes, really. I love jokes as much as anyone else. However, is the joke funny because of the situation/pun/unexpectation etc, or is it because it’s a push up, push down power “yo mamma” or specifically :

    “dogme acolytes come in shiny coracles to teach us the word of the Lord and to free us from our ignorance”

    I didn’t feel Scott’s article made tech teachers seem “thick”. I thought it brought a similar perspective as yours— questioning the status quo, and sharing what our personal experiences find to be best for the immediate and future.

    I think when I read it the first time, that “dogme acolyte” comment and the cracks on Postman did, in fact, change how I read your following points, that on a second read I saw as more balanced, strong and intelligent.

    When you’re preaching to the choir, that kind of joke is good, but fire and brimstone towards folks that are on the edge… well it just might burn ‘em.

    Again, thanks for the post, and we’ll keep digging. cheers, b

    [Reply]

    Gavin Dudeney Reply:

    Brad,

    Fair point, and I’ll take it on board for the future. Just for some context to both those remarks: Scott, on his blog, refers to the ‘sainted Postman’, so I was really picking up on that original remark. In terms of the acolytes – well, it’s an extension of the old stories of religious conversion for (digital) natives – all shiny mirrors and guns in exchange for all the land and a conversion to the word of the Lord.

    Still, I suppose if I need to gloss it all, then it’s not really hitting the mark :-)

    Gavin

  8. Hi Gavin,

    to pick up briefly on one point that you’ve made here if I may, re: those of us who are aware of how people are using technology on the ground…

    Might it be fair to say that our personal experience of how people are using technology in the classroom doesn’t necessarily tally with how people are using it in other contexts, and/or in a much wider sense?

    I pulled this link out of my bookmarks earlier as I think it provides a really good illustration of people who think that they are on the right track with regards to educational technology, but instead are getting it very badly wrong…!

    http://english.vietnamnet.vn/en/education/2926/teachers-tired-with-e-lesson-plans.html

    What is just as shocking (or at least for me, anyway) is that I’ve enountered teachers in the UK from time to time whose idea of using technology in the classroom runs on similar lines, as well.

    Maybe it’s not so much a case of losing perspective for some people, as not knowing where to begin in the first place… which is one of the reasons why I’m starting to come around to the view that perhaps we should be making the pedagogy a little more explicit and giving a bit more guidance as to good practice when we present unfamilar tools to people who aren’t that tech savvy.

    Sue

    [Reply]

    Gavin Dudeney Reply:

    Sue,

    I think it’s fair to say that there will indeed be bad uses of ed. tech, just as there will be poor teachers, unqualified teachers, teachers who just don’t care anymore, teachers biding their time until retirement and the whole gamut inbetween. As with any other profession, we’re a broad church. For every link like the one above, I’m sure I (or any number of people) could post another demonstrating a good use of ed. tech. I’m not sure the argument gets advanced by making lists…

    In terms of ‘on the ground’, I’m lucky enough to have seen teachers using ed. tech in a wide variety of contexts over the past few years: from Argentina to Australia, Brazil to Belgium and pretty much anywhere else you might think of. I’ve been involved in a ten country Asia project with the British Council, and – as mentioned above – am in the middle of a pretty in-depth research project in Russia.

    It’s those people I’m drawing on, generally, when I write and talk about ed. tech. It’s easy to make assumptions about what’s going on out there, based on a small set of data from one particular teaching centre or scenario – but these assumptions don’t do anyone any favours (least of all those making them) and really don’t reflect a greater reality lived by very principled ed. tech inspired teachers worldwide.

    Where I can definitely agree with you is that most people don’t know where to start – our pre- and in-service teacher training courses willfully ignore ed. tech, our managers spend all their money on the hardware and little on the wetware, there’s rarely any institutional support, etc., etc.

    But that doesn’t lead us on to a reasonable assumption that people are using it ‘badly’ or in an ‘unprincipled’ way. The tech sceptics may have a problem with the ‘choice’ of principles, but I still can’t bring myself to believe that many ed. tech enthusiasts are slobbering idiots more impressed with a cable than anything else, and incapable of appreciating both the affordances and the limitations of any particular piece of technology, platform or website.

    Many of the more vocal writers on ed tech: myself, Graham Stanley, Nik Peachey, Russel Stannard et al have been concentrating on the pedagogy over the technology for years. The same can be said of the large majority of subscribers to the Webheads list and other online CoPs. I very rarely speak of ‘tools’ when I do workshops. Instead, I focus on wat’s familiar to people – working with texts (audio or written), working with images, working with video, working with vocabulary, etc. This helps people see how their world can work with the ed. tech world, rather than how they have to adapt their pedagogy to fit stuff that plugs in.

    My colleague Nicky is just back from running a workshop in Seville. In the workshop she looked at a couple of ed. tech projects, then spent the large majority of the time with the participants discussing how these things fit into current practice, how they enhance it. Making the tech non-threatening is key, as is using vocabulary and concept with which people are familiar.

    Best,

    Gavin

    [Reply]

    Sue Lyon-Jones Reply:

    Hi again Gavin,

    think we may be going round in circles here, as the point I was trying to make was that we should avoid generalising, & making assumptions… :-)

    I don’t dispute that good trainers do focus on the pedagogy as well as technology when we train people (I aim do the same myself)… I think a big part of the problem is that there aren’t enough trainers equipped to deliver edtech skills to go around at the moment, if we consider the bigger picture; and even if there were, there is a reluctance on the part of many organisations to put their hand in their pockets and fork out for good quality training, as you say.

    As you yourself also point out, pre-and in-service teacher training often wilfully ignores ed. tech (along with other contemporary pedagogies) and it seems to me that something needs to be done to drag such courses kicking and screaming into the 21st century. Ed.tech training ought to be embedded into initial teacher training courses, rather than something that is tacked on later as an afterthought.

    Sue

    [Reply]

    Gavin Dudeney Reply:

    Sue,

    You’ll hear no disagreements from me on this comment :-)

    Gavin

  9. [...] defeating the purpose of being learning experts, and focussing, as the tech-skeptics might have it, on the shiny button at the expense of pedagogy. But it's equally wrong to think this isn't the proper learning method. In this day and age it's [...]

  10. “when I last taught in a school people used to show videos when they wanted a fag break. Don’t talk to me about ed. tech – there’s no critical thought, no evaluation, no pedagogy…”

    As misguided as this statement is, it is equally telling. When ed tech is implemented strategically in educationally sound ways, these kinds of statements cannot be made.

    We need to bring both sides together in this. Just as tech should be ubiquitous, so should educators. No techies or skeptics, just teachers using 21st century tools. My current blog post addresses this more globally: http://edge.ascd.org/_Reaching-Higher-Ground/blog/3546673/127586.html

    [Reply]

    Gavin Dudeney Reply:

    Walter,

    Thanks for this. Notice, however, that the piece you quote is not my opinion, but rather an opinion that I do heartily disagree with.

    Best,

    Gavin

    [Reply]

  11. Diarmuid says:

    There is nothing more middle class than disdain for the middle class.

    [Reply]

    Gavin Dudeney Reply:

    Diarmuid,

    I’m sure there must be…. maybe having a small yacht, or a holiday home on ‘the continent’?

    Gavin

    [Reply]

    Diarmuid Reply:

    I think not, Mr D. Because before anyone will sell you a yacht or a holiday home, salespeople are required to check your disdain for other middle class people. Without the right degree of disdain, you will not be sold such products. This is the law and you can still be hanged for breaking it in the United Britain.

    Incidentally, I might have to dispute the middle classness of either possession. This pretty much pushes you towards the higher end of middle class. Unless we agree that there is nothing more middle class than crippling debt.

    [Reply]

    Gavin Dudeney Reply:

    A yes! Crippling debt… As middle class as a Waitrose ready meal for two. I do apologise for overlooking something so obvious…

    Gavin

  12. Some eminently sensible (no jokes or attempts at wit as here on my blog) thoughts on technology in education, with a wealth of references and studies is now available over on my colleague Nicky’s blog, along with her take on the ELTJ debate…

    The Principled Approach

    Gavin

    [Reply]

  13. Rob says:

    Apologies for cross-posting (Have always wanted to write that, and now I can)

    Gavin, I posted this over at Nicky Hockly’s excellent blog and put it up here since I’m sure you and your blog readers will have something interesting to say about it.

    I’m particularly interested in technology and society, which of course includes the role of technology in education. I live near three producers of technology you might know: Microsoft Corp., Intel, and Apple, Inc. – ever used their products? I think it would be naive to ignore the context that these three, and many other producers of modern technology, have created and thrive within; namely, what has been called the ‘new capitalism’ (cf. http://everydayliteracies.net/langnewcap.html ).

    Among other things, schools teach us what information we should deem relevant and what to do with that information. Modern technology plays an important role in this regard, and technology giants like these three have a strong interest in shaping school policy. Examine Bill Gates’ close ties to The Department of Education http://www.dissentmagazine.org/article/?article=3781 as just one example.

    My point is that people who advocate for more technology in classrooms, even if they’re simply blogging about it, often make it seem as if there is a great amount of resistance to technology in education although it is apparent that such advocates have a lot of money and influence in their favor – sorry that doesn’t mean the e-consultants per se.

    Rob

    [Reply]

    Gavin Dudeney Reply:

    Rob,

    Thanks for this. I follow Gates’ philanthropic endeavours quite closely – I have a great deal of admiration for a lot of his work, in health, education, etc., and for his setting up of the so-called ‘billionaires club’. I think he does a lot of good.

    I don’t know about the States, but his (or Jobs’) influence on educational policy in, say, Spain, is negligible. With many education authorities switching to open source (a move of which I thoroughly approve), it seems this is the case in many countries around the world these days.

    Gates has strong opinions on education, and – like many people in our field – he thinks those opinions are worth hearing and acting upon. Not a problem for me…

    Gavin

    [Reply]

    Rob Reply:

    Thanks for your reply, Gavin. I know you must be quite busy (as always?). I don’t question Gates’ good intentions, and I also admire some of his efforts. After reading the article, however, I get the impression he is out to privatize education rather than improve it. This trend towards a service-industry model of education is gaining traction in the States and, to me, misses the point of education by focusing more on training. It also run the risk of perpetuating the New Work Order that James Gee describes, whereby lower income folks are trained to work in service sector jobs supervised by middle-managers for the economic benefit of the ‘well educated’ (ie those who can afford private education). Would you like fries with that diploma? No thank you. :-)

    Like you, open source – though I probably know much less about the details than you do – is an idea that I find appealing.

    Hope you find time to read at least the article about education in the States, but I understand that the US might not be what Bill Clinton once called ‘The indispensable nation’, so perhaps it doesn’t matter to the rest of the world. :-)

    Rob

    [Reply]

  14. [...] Gavin’s Mass Debates: Awesome post. A man considering balance in ELT education and not telling me there is only one way [...]